Tuesday, September 20, 2011

So why put it last on the list?

Wendy Tuohy
Wendy Tuohy is an Australian journalist, early 40s, something of a lefty, and a mother of three. She recently found out that a friend had finally fallen pregnant:

I have a friend, about my age, who recently told me she's pregnant. She looked so happy on the morning she told me that I guessed - and when she got the words out I was almost shaking with glee. Tears sprang into my eyes for about a dozen reasons.

The emotion closest to the top was pure relief; she has never had a baby and I had assumed she had decided that motherhood was not for her...When she told me the happy news my first thought was,

"Thank God, you are not going to miss out".

Tears, relief, joy:

I feel boundlessly joyous for my friend and, as I said to her, I am already picturing myself holding her precious baby - and smelling that heavenly, sweet, so-addictive baby's head smell.

But amid all the joy and the relief ... I felt another wave of emotion. I didn't tell her, but it was a faint echo of grief. Grief that I will never again have that intoxicating happiness of seeing the blue lines on the pregnancy test, hearing the tiny baby's heartbeat on the monitor, feeling its first few kicks - whining about it kicking me up under the ribs in the last month or so - and bringing home a brand-new angel.

She misses deeply the experience of having a baby, despite the work involved:

I'm through the breast-feeding, sleep deprivation, the nappies, and the potties, the hours and hours of Gymbaroo, the toddler music classes, the get-in-the-water-with-them swimming lessons, the kinder years midnight carpet-vomits and snot festivals that spread to everyone around us, and the transitions into school...

But still I dream of babies. For the couple of years after our third was born - with help as I had turned 35 and become a fertility statistic - I hoped there may really be a fourth.

She was sensible to have begun having children earlier than many other middle-class women, as she was one of those women whose natural fertility ended at about age 35. Even so, she regrets that could not have a fourth child.

Wendy Tuohy finishes by acknowledging that she still has a case of baby lust:

I was reminded only last week, when changing the sheets on my 13 year-old's bed, that I'm still not over baby lust. "Where is your cot?" I found myself thinking, "and where's your stroller gone?"

I'm not a huge nostalgic - I like to live in the now - but that physical sensation of holding the tiny body in my arms is one thing that has stayed with me, and a memory that still stops me in my tracks (with gratitude).

I ride past the three kids' kinder every day on the way to work, and if I'm a bit tired or emotional, I do feel a tiny bit wistful when I hear the chirpy children behind the fence.

Perhaps we're just programmed to still look at babies and melt, right up until the time when nature intends for it to be physically impossible to have another. Though talking to my mother who is 70, it sounds like baby love is more often a lifelong thing. I will gratefully live with that.

It's refreshing in this last quote to read someone from the left expressing gratitude for the way her life has been blessed with children. It is strikingly unnihilistic.

But her column raises an important issue. If having children is so important for women, then why is it put so low down on the list of priorities? Why is it that the most important thing is left perilously till last?

33 comments:

  1. Seems like the journalist Wendy is more of a fiscal liberal and a socialist rather than a libertine and a cultural liberal.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Because women who have kids do get a bit of "baby love" afterwards and are unlikely to view career in the same way as they did before.

    This is not what the right-liberals want as it reduces economic productivity. This they do not like.

    It is not what Left-liberals want as women who do not have career as a priority are unlikely to reach the boardroom and are very likely to be co-dependent with a man. This they REALLY do not like.

    Our entire social structure seems set up to enable the life script of career minded, upper middle class, university educated women who want a single child to round out her C.V at about 36.

    Everyone else is on the margins.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Mark,

    "If having children is so important for women, then why is it put so low down on the list of priorities? Why is it that the most important thing is left perilously till last?"

    The way this is phrased lends the impression that society makes women's decisions for them. I cannot agree with this because it absolves women of responsibility and lets them behave as though infertility 'happens' to them, much like bad luck. I would have phrased the above in the following way:

    "If having children is so important for women, then why do women put it so low down on the list of priorities? Why is it that women leave the most important thing perilously till last?"

    ReplyDelete
  4. Until you have kids, you don't (and perhaps can't) understand how incredibly cool it is.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "She misses deeply the experience of having a baby, despite the work involved:"

    Not me. Lol.
    It was damn hard work.

    I have never suffered from baby lust. Not all women do.

    I guess that I am just not a natural like some women are. For some strange reason people always assume that a woman who has children must be a good mother.

    I never found it easy at all. Still don't. I love my kids dearly and do the best that I can as a mother, but, I'm no great shakes. Adequate at best. I stress lots, and would never have dreamed of taking the kids grocery shopping when they were babies like lots of mothers do. I lacked confidence.

    Fortunately I have a good husband who is a hands on father. When our daughter was born she had terrible colic for the first six months and hardly slept more than a couple of hours at a time We would take it in shifts to look after our baby.

    I could not have done it without his help.

    On the plus side, my husband knows that I married him because I loved HIM not for what he could give me.

    I was not a particularly maternal woman but he was keen for a family. When I fell in love with him though, I desperately wanted to give him the children that he wanted..He had no money at the time either.. Lol...(now earns a six figure sum)

    ReplyDelete
  6. "I was not a particularly maternal woman"

    Some women are not.

    Women are of course more maternal than men, but even the casual observer can see that not all women have the same level of maternal instinct.

    I once heard an Evo-Psych advocate explaining a theory involving shared parenting responsibilities amongst closely related women allowed other women more time to go get food in case the boys were getting lazy or unlucky.

    Sounds plausible.

    "He had no money at the time either.. Lol...(now earns a six figure sum)"

    Can't blame a girl who knows how to buy low and sell high, basic survival trait.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I'm getting so over this now.

    Most women do have children. Just not that many---2.

    And for all the single girls...it's simple...

    Because it's really hard to find a man, and because it's really hard to afford children.

    I'm starting to see a lot of upper-class highly educated white women with Asian men. Asian men they do not fit with.

    Why? Because white men are being beaten out in the education department by Asian men.

    This isn't to insult white men, this goes back to all of Steve Sailer's SAT posts from this week....

    Whites don't do well under multiculturalism.

    White men can't compete with rote memory asian drones on stupid rote memory tests to get into college majors.

    I hate to say this but women are not that evil.

    All of this is caused by immigration. So putting too much blame on females gets to me.

    It's really hard to find a guy Mark for certain women with certain personality traits.

    I mean we are your sisters! If you men had problems finding a woman...Think it is any easier for the girls with similar personality traits? Nope.

    I am still waiting for the post yelling at women and men who are married who choose only to have 1 or 2.

    ReplyDelete
  8. And while I'm being bitchy...

    Regarding the above Comment...

    You married your husband when he was poor and now he makes 6 figures...

    Well whoop de dooo

    Let's see how well your marriage would have done had he stayed poor honey.

    Don't even try to argue with me because I'm the kid.

    ReplyDelete
  9. And honestly women who say that about their husbands, who add the little money-making caveat, just make everyone hate women.

    It is like treating a man like a stock.

    There ain't nary a woman, and I say this being one, who doesn't look at Future Earning Potential of a mate.

    And everyone starts out poor. But there is a difference between 'starting out poor' and being say a city bus driver.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Anonymous at 10.45 & 10.55 claims that immigration is responsible for the current situation in the countries which constitute what used to be western civilization. Granted immigration causes all sorts of problems. The governing class intend to use the immigrants against whites. They will have no trouble obeying orders to arrest white dissidents, forcibly break up demonstrations & so forth. This is as ancient as tyranny itself. Aristotle wrote of tyrants preferring foreigners to the native born 23 centuries ago in his Politics. That having been said, one cannot really blame the foreigners for the abysmal state of marriage in western countries. Women initiate the majority of divorces. I rather doubt that Arabians, Mexicans, Chinese &c. have been putting guns to these women's heads telling them to divorce or else. No, it isn't the foreigners, it's that western society is utterly corrupt, nauseatingly depraved. That is the real reason. Most people now, especially most women see the Sacrament of matrimony as being no more than a pleasure compact, to be dissolved as soon as one of the parties ceases to derive pleasure from it. The laws assist them & make it quick & easy to divorce & destroy any family that may exist because the destruction of the family is one of the foremost objectives of the modern state. Socialists always want to destroy the family, they want children( if any are to be allowed to be born that is) raised in common, not even knowing who their parents are. They want men to live like insects in a hive, all the better to be controlled & herded like cattle by their masters. With the family done away with the tyrants will have everything their own way, especially as regards the education of new generations. They would be able to teach them whatever rubbish they wanted (They've very nearly arrived at that point already), they could teach them that the Party invented every useful invention known to man as in 1984. It would also clear the way for altering human beings by use of chemicals & genetic engineering as in Huxley's Brave New World. Then they could bring forth a multitude of perfect slaves. The purpose of the laws which prohibited divorce was the upholding of Christendom. Our Lord said in the Holy Gospel that the Truth will set one free. Likewise a love of lies & wickedness of all kinds will enslave one. Since modern westerners love falsity & revel in iniquity they will never be free. The tyranny will only get worse & worse. The tyrants know this as well. That's why they assist in the distribution of pornography & teach young people that degenerate perverts & sodomites are normal. As Mazzini said "we corrupt in order to rule". The other comment daring anyone to denounce those who only want to have one or two well demonstrates the decadence of modern western society. It well shows forth the diabolical spirit of pride that has permeated the entire world. The will of Almighty God is considered to be of no account. They will have only one or two children, & if God would send them more that's too bad as THEY will determine what is good & evil, just as the devil promised in the Garden of Eden. Does anyone ever consider that this hatred of God's Law may well be the reason that He has given them into the hand of their enemies. The people must humble themselves & do penance if there is to be any hope. Our Lady of Fatima pray for us.

    ReplyDelete
  11. "I hate to say this but women are not that evil.

    All of this is caused by immigration. So putting too much blame on females gets to me."

    Do women vote against immigration?

    Nope.

    Oh well, guess we can blame them after all.

    Not to mention, I don't know what country you're in, but the number of Asian immigrants in Australia and America is relatively trivial. So no, Asians are not kicking white men's asses.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Lol.. You missed the point. I married my husband because I love him. I was just pointing out that it was not for material considerations. Or to have children(which is what some women do)

    In any case honey, I had enough money to almost pay for the house outright. I gave up a well paying job to be a sahm because that is what my husband wanted, and I agreed with him.

    He started his own business. It could have failed.Only about 5% of business are still going after 5 years.. He worked hard..He was astute... He prayed...

    Some things you cannot predict.

    You are entitled to your opinion of course, but no I did not look at my husband as having any particular earning potential, because I was just not the maternal type, and I had a job..

    In any case I thought that at thirty I may have been too old to have kids anyway..How wrong I was... Bingo on the honeymoon.

    So calm your farm, honey. ;)
    Not worth getting your knickers in a twist over.

    ReplyDelete
  13. "Not to mention, I don't know what country you're in, but the number of Asian immigrants in Australia and America is relatively trivial."

    Asian immigrants make up the majority of Australia's annual intake and even make up the majority in vast swathes of residential areas in Melbourne and especially Sydney. They are demographically to Australia what Mexicans are to the US.

    However the sight of an Asian male with a White female is very rare. Certainly much less common that the White male/Asian female coupling.

    ReplyDelete
  14. "Not to mention, I don't know what country you're in, but the number of Asian immigrants in Australia and America is relatively trivial."

    having just been to Sydney the other day I can tell you its no longer an Australian city. Anglo 'white' Australians are a minority, a tiny one in Sydney.
    There are so many foreigners there and they are unemployed and looking for work with cvs in hand.
    The number of 'dodgey'street thug type people has risen dramaticaly since last i visited.
    Sydney now is truly a 3rd world multicultural hell hole. This country is a joke. Looking forward to emigrating.

    ReplyDelete
  15. To continue what I was saying and in reply to this second poster
    "However the sight of an Asian male with a White female is very rare. Certainly much less common that the White male/Asian female coupling."

    I've noticed a phenonmenom in areas that are predominately not Australian is that there are no 'white' men and still plenty of 'white' single women living in those regions
    Because white males are effectively being pushed out of cities like Sydney and white women are too naive, employed in the area or caught up in multiculturalism to notice where all the 'white' men have gone.
    Its just natural that foreign men and their ilk will take over. They don't even have to try.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Ahh so being a busdriver is a bad thing I guess unless of course you depend on him to get you to and fro. And on time.

    See that's the problem with spoiled brat white women. You judge men on their occupations even though you'll gladly toss them under the bus for a job. But many of those low status occupations can pay good money.

    Let's not judge white women are being sluts, call them out on their actions or even criticize them for their words. But boy oh boy, you'll gladly judge men on such ridiculous things such as the shoes he wears.

    White women are a scourge.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I am still waiting for the post yelling at women and men who are married who choose only to have 1 or 2.

    But I post all the time about the problem of late marriage.

    If people married at 25 rather than in their 30s, then those who found a commitment in family life would certainly have more children.

    White women are a scourge.

    I get the frustration with women. There are women who put family formation low on their list in their 20s, and who do the whole chasing bad boys/alpha types/exotic types instead, expecting that there'll still be decent men around to sacrifice for them when they're in their 30s.

    But it's not something that white women alone do. And when white women do finally get married and have children they can be very committed to their families. My own suburb is full of white women who married quite late, have one or two children, but who are focused on their families.

    If we are the cultural resistance, then we have to keep a positive focus. Telling our own women that they are a 'scourge' will be counterproductive. We need to bring the better type of women with us if we're going to get anywhere.

    One of the things I disliked about feminism was that it set men and women against each other, when my own instinct was that the relationship between the sexes was supposed to be one of the most fulfilling aspects of life.

    We shouldn't let liberal modernity grind us down into a hostility against the women of our own nations. We can criticise, we can judge and we can to whatever we can to reform. But if we're going to get out of this - if there is going to be a future - then we have to get out together, even if that means focusing on the healthy remnant in society.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Our entire social structure seems set up to enable the life script of career minded, upper middle class, university educated women who want a single child to round out her C.V at about 36.

    Everyone else is on the margins.


    James, I agree. And this is despite the fact that the promise of liberal modernity is that we can all equally write our own life scripts. The reality is, as you point out, that the whole of society is oriented to promoting a certain specific life script for one small subset of the population.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Mark, they are a scourge. You have on hand a good number of the white male population that hates them and for good reason.

    They are not only mean and arrogant, but they lied to us. Told us one thing but as seen with our own eyes, wanted something completely different. And for that, many of the older women won't be able to form stable families because many men out there won't have anything to do with them.

    You know what really hurts Mark? To work your ass off for 50 hours a week, in one of those low status jobs, and look out the window and see middle class white women riding around with thugs. See they not only killed many of our notions about them, but they also killed the incentive to really want to work. Why should we if toil and see them driving thugs around living it up?

    So white women can't really complain about the lack of men who will support them in a way. And it boils down to what they showed men repeatedly over the years who they really wanted to be with. And it's not some hardworking stable guy. Bus driver or not because even though the guy is as stable as a rock, it's too boring. And besides, his shoes just aren't good enough.

    ReplyDelete
  20. I was just wondering, do most professional women still expect (and want?) to do most of the childrearing? My wife does about half the childcare, while ignoring the other household tasks - cleaning, laundry etc all fall to me. Coming home (tired) from work, I picked our son up tonight from 'after school club', and just after we got home from an excursion to the playground, my wife phoned to say she was out boozing with friends and would be home at some unknown future time.

    I'm guessing this is not the typical experience of most Oz Conservsative readers. I wonder how typical it is for Left/Feminist women? I kinda get the impression they talk a good game on 'empowerment', but most of them still do the bulk of the housework, childcare etc along with their career?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Mark:
    "If people married at 25 rather than in their 30s, then those who found a commitment in family life would certainly have more children."

    I married at 24; my wife consented to conceive nearly 10 years later, when she was 36. So, no guarantees there.

    Sorry, feeling a bit grouchy tonight. :)

    Agere et Pati...

    ReplyDelete
  22. Simon,

    Sure, no guarantees. But there are women who unexpectedly find their life satisfaction in being mothers. If they find out at, say, 28 rather than 38 then the likelihood of having more than 1 or 2 children is relatively high.

    As for your other question, I think my brother is in your boat. He and his wife are both academics working similar hours. But he does the lion's share of the work at home.

    My own marriage is more traditional. I earn the money, do the outside yard work, am the "assistant" when it comes to hands on child care. My wife looks after the house and does most of the day to day child care.

    It works well for us. Neither of us have a "second shift". I'm not sure if my wife tried to work full-time and also then look after the children and the house that it would work out too well - there's a tipping point of stress at which she loses feminine calm. And my own job is stressful - I do need some down time myself.

    ReplyDelete
  23. I agree with Anonymous Friday, 23 September 2011 12:22:00 AM AEST

    It is deeply insulting for a hard working handsome guy to be ignored in favour of people that speak 'thug' dialect , don't work and are honestly not really attractive (lets be honest here)
    I was deeply offended by any 'white' female that associated with 'black 'thug' culture (this is applicable to any male of any race) before I was fortunate to land a nice girlfriend of my own.
    I am still offended by it and refuse to associate with these sort of women.
    But now I think about the absurdity of modern life in western countries where fathers and men work hard all day while foreigners roam around gaming their wives, daughters and sisters.
    I would be furious if my daughter was being hit on by a foreigner or 'gangsta' type deadbeat while I worked my ass off.
    Modern life effectively takes 'white' men out of the equation and leaves the women open to be gamed by people who only want one thing out of our society. Self satisfaction.
    This is why our societies are falling apart. The hard workers work hard for nothing and no prospects or relationships.
    The parasites come in and win everything.
    Hard workers stop working hard and suicide or migrate. Then it all goes to the dogs.

    ReplyDelete
  24. I can well understand why there are a great many men that dislike white women in this day & age. They are for the most part perfect feminists. One thing that can said for women of Asian, Latin American or Middle eastern extraction is that they at least generally act as human beings rather than mentally deranged members of a communist cadre. They actually appreciate the things that are done for them, & what's more, they don't regard reciprocating by cleaning & cooking & so forth to be a form of intolerable fascist oppression. My advice to all of the young chaps looking to get married would be to go abroad. Staying at home would be rather like looking for water in the Sahara desert. True, they may just happen to find an oasis, but it's not likely. One must of course be very careful in such an undertaking, there is a great deal of danger, but at least one has got a chance. The difference is best summed up thus: Mariage to an Asian, Latin American &c. is like playing Russian roulette. Marriage to a modern liberated white woman is like playing it with 5 of the 6 chambers loaded. Cheers.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Anon,

    Moving overseas and marrying a non-European effectively means giving up. It means letting the liberal state have its way.

    We've got to be a lot more tenacious. In the short term, men ought to avoid the feminist type of women even if it means moving suburb or town. They might too need to learn certain aspects of 'game' (e.g. demonstrating higher value, self-confidence, not being supplicating).

    But in the longer term the anger needs to be channelled into seriously challenging the direction of Western societies.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Kimbra.

    After 50 years or so one would think we could have some new insights?

    ReplyDelete
  27. I think that calling women a scourge is counterproductive. The manosphere has many things right but this is where they go wrong. Insulting and seeing women as evil doesn't work. Whenever I read a post on a blog and the author goes "But remember that women on the inside are truly evil and only care about themselves" or "Remember that traditional conservatives see women as perfect!" I turn off to the negativity and the lies. I'm not psychotic and I don't view women as perfect little angels. Only God can be seen as totally holy and righteous.

    Feminism, a sub-section of liberalism, has the aim of twisting what is good, true and beautiful and effectively destroying society and turning things upside down. Ironic that a movement that cares so much about the freedom of women is leading them towards their bondage.

    Moden society, liberal modernity, only wants us to not care about civilization and to reject it and I have to say that they have been awfully convincing unfortunately. There's little precious to protect and cherish in a society dominated by liberalism. But that doesn't mean that we give up and roll in the ground. We should give up on today's society and work towards renewal and building a future where society is restored.

    ReplyDelete
  28. @Elizabeth.
    I think you are ignoring something that is key to this discussion. Men are calling western white women a scourge. Not all women.

    ReplyDelete
  29. I think you are ignoring something that is key to this discussion. Men are calling western white women a scourge. Not all women.

    A huge problem is how due to globalization and Westernization of the world the dogma of liberalism is spreading. The malaise of feminism is hitting historically non-Western countries as well. I'm non-Western and I'm seeing this happening before my eyes.

    ReplyDelete
  30. A huge problem is how due to globalization and Westernization of the world the dogma of liberalism is spreading. The malaise of feminism is hitting historically non-Western countries as well. I'm non-Western and I'm seeing this happening before my eyes.

    Again you seem to be still ignoring the issue of 'white' western women. They faciliate the expansion of these radical ideologies around the world they are a political powerhouse of liberalism.
    They are the scourge we are talking about. White males aren't referring to non-western females. Especially non-western non-white females they are another issue.
    They set up the situation for their own men to be knocked down. Laugh at them tell them its their own fault. Then practically make it a criminal offence for 'white' males to complain let alone protest the situation.
    White women have taken the voice away from white males. Given our power to foreign men. Humiliated us, spat in our faces and marginalised us.
    You won't understand this unless you are a white male or a white female that is part of the problem.

    ReplyDelete
  31. White women have taken the voice away from white males.

    Some did, but they did it with the support of a liberal establishment.

    It's not as if a whole lot of men in the establishment fought for the rights of men but were overpowered by white women. The white male liberal establishment agreed in principle with the feminist white women, who were quickly granted their demands.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Many men today are addicted to pleasure and their own short term self interests, and I don't think they're really like that as a consequence of, or in reaction to, feminism. A society that puts self interest first will always struggle and be in grave difficulties.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Beautiful! The reason we are programmed to adore the thought of more babies, is not because of "baby lust". It's because God equipped us with a desire to have children until He closes the womb. Although "archaic" and certainly not popular or feminist, it is truth. It us us who put the kebash on having children, through artificial birth control and sterilization. Then, we cry when we can't have more children..or, we so lie to ourselves about the "right to protect ourselves from having unwanted burdens" that we are conditioned to think we are abnormal if we desire a lot.

    I know from experience. I was so talked down to by my career mother in law, about having lots of children, that I was sterilized at the birth of our fourth. Thankfully, it was reversed, and I see all children as blessings, not just the perfectly planned, perfectly spaced, and in an "acceptable number" according to the feminist world.

    ReplyDelete