I … think it’s an uncomfortable truth that the sort of high-flying alpha males we were all holding out for didn’t want women like us. All the successful men I know have married sweet, uncomplicated women who are happy to forfeit their careers to support their husbands
It's interesting that Claudia Connell should make this observation, as I was going to post today on a similar observation of my own.
As regular readers will know I work as a teacher and so I am in a position to follow the lives of about 60 other staff members. About five years ago the school hired three young male teachers. They are tall, good-looking, socially adept, intelligent and sporty. In the last year or two all three have married and two are now expecting children.
Why point this out? Well, the people I work with are mostly very politically correct left-liberal types. The three men who recently married all passionately endorse feminism and other aspects of "progressive" politics.
So these are exactly the type of men that hipster campus feminists would most likely want to partner with. They would be amongst the most desirable of companions for a left-liberal young feminist woman.
And this is where it gets interesting. I have met all three wives and they are all of a similar type. They are very classily feminine, demure and family oriented. In fact, they are the sort of women that I, as a traditionalist conservative, was attracted to as a single man.
So for all the passionate embrace of feminism, the "alpha left-liberals" are still going for the more traditionally feminine type of woman. They are still men after all.
The moral of the story is that it's unwise for young women to buy into the idea that they should be feisty, assertive, androgynous, butt-kicking, mannish, drunken, loud personalities and that they can safely wait until their 30s to partner up.
It is never going to hurt women to be beautifully feminine when it comes to attracting a man, and parents should encourage their daughters to cultivate such qualities as best they can. And timing does matter. These three men were snapped up in their mid-20s. They are now out of the market for those women who choose to deliberately delay to their 30s.
Very true, of course, Mark. People are generally not attracted or unattracted to others in a romantic/sexual way based on ideologies or political persuasion -- it's more visceral, for men and women alike. There are people, particularly among women, who *claim* that they select on that basis, but the proof is in the pudding on that one: attractive attracts attractive, politics be damned. In the US at least, it's quite common for couples to be divided politically/ideologically (a big deal has been made of this in the runup to the current US elections) -- for most people who are not policy wonks (and even for some who are, like the famous Carville/Matalin pairing), visceral attraction factors (appearance, personality, chemistry, lifestyle, etc.) far, far outweigh ideological leaning in mate selection.
ReplyDeleteI would also say this: most of the women who are losing out like your journalist here are about as attractive as she is. That is -- middling. A person, male or female, can work with that, but you have to eliminate the rest of the bad baggage personality wise (which is different for men and women) *and* recalibrate the attraction vectors as well away from the top shelf. For a woman like that journalist to expect to marry an alpha male is a sad joke, and frankly it's shocking she wasn't let it on that secret many years ago.
This is definitely true. The men who are available to professional women in their late '30s are men they would not have looked twice at in their mid '20s. They're men at least two ranks down from the men these women would have gone for in their prime.
ReplyDeleteAnd even those less-desirable men are only available to the more high-desirability-ranking women: the ones who are willing to put in a bit of effort to demonstrate that despite their past they are now going to be decent wives and hopefully mothers to their husband's 1.3 children. The women who won't compromise and who expect to bag a Carrie Bradshaw style Mr Big at 38, have pretty much no chance at all.
On the bright side: if you're a moderate earning, not very attractive, not very sociable man in his late '30s, if you're not totally hopeless the chances are that there is an aging but still presentable professional woman out there looking for you! >:)
Brendan:
ReplyDelete" A person, male or female, can work with that, but you have to eliminate the rest of the bad baggage personality wise (which is different for men and women) *and* recalibrate the attraction vectors as well away from the top shelf."
Yup, well said. IME a lot of women do do this, though. I wonder whether compared to most women female journalists have a particularly skewed sense of their own worth and attractiveness, that accounts for so many getting set to die alone surrounded by their cats.
What we don't is the extent to which politics is determined by biology.
ReplyDeleteIf biology is a big factor in political views, then it doesn't really matter if left wing women are having fewer babies. If fact its probably a good thing, as society will slowly weed out the excessive number of leftists in our society.
There are probably other factors that are also being positively selected for, like extroversion and mathematical ability which weren't that important a hundred years ago.
Brendan you may be correct in saying attractive attracts attractive. That politics does not come into play but Liberal
ReplyDeletepolitics is particularly powerful influence on women minds even if they acknowledge it.
I've been there. I lost a perfectly traditional girl to that brainwashed thinking. The only fights we ever had related to liberal politics and more problems grew from that. She had some particularly extremist friends one in particularly that brought my ex to tears over nasty political agendas (like white women shouldn't have kids, yes this was said to my ex)
It never made any sense because she was not a liberal in lifestyle or action she just parroted liberal thinking.
If a woman is submersed in liberal politics and that is all she knows if you appear to be not liberal yourself suspicion is generated and you can even become the "enemy"
even if they don't acknowledge it*
ReplyDeletePeople are generally not attracted or unattracted to others in a romantic/sexual way based on ideologies or political persuasion -- it's more visceral, for men and women alike.
ReplyDeleteThose days are long gone Brendan. The youngest generation is dividing itself among political and religious lines (at least in the USA). Please stop with your "moderate" crap. It doesn't fly with me or with anybody else.
Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteI didn't read Brendan's comment the same way you did.
It's true that people will still look for a compatibility in values, including religious and political ones.
But Brendan's little phrase "attractive attracts attractive" is true in what I've obvserved. And it means that three high quality lefty men went for three classically attractive feminine women, rather than for modern girl personality types.
I want to point it out, because I'm not sure that young women are encouraged to cultivate the qualities that are going to make them attractive to the most attractive of men.
Yup, well said. IME a lot of women do do this, though.
ReplyDeleteThere's one female staff member who recently hit 30 and who is obviously trying to improve her appeal to men.
She's starting to dress nicely and act pleasantly.
And good luck to her. She's certainly improving her chances.
"She had some particularly extremist friends one in particularly that brought my ex to tears over nasty political agendas (like white women shouldn't have kids, yes this was said to my ex)"
ReplyDeleteThat's the anti-White program in a nutshell: death to you and all your race.
Which makes for harsh politics.
There's one female staff member who recently hit 30 and who is obviously trying to improve her appeal to men.
ReplyDeleteManospherian blogger Roissy calls this "hitting the wall". I agree with him on this. She went from "my autonomous 20's" to "finding a man 30's".
I wouldn't laugh at "hitting the wall". She's making the right move, and she could do herself a lot of good, provided she's also changed her mind about "the sort of high-flying alpha males we were all holding out for".
ReplyDelete@Mark Richardson
ReplyDeleteYou often argue that liberalism is about maximising the autonomy of the individual.
Liberals often couch it in terms of empowering the individual.
I was reading this blog post about cheating/fraud and this caught my attention.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/darwin-eternity/201211/why-cheaters-win
"But there’s an even more fundamental reason, one that’s more subtle than the three just discussed, for why cheating prevails: it is inherently and uniquely empowering to individuals, and therefore uniquely corrupting to organizations. "
Perhaps liberalism could be characterised as a form of cheating/defrauding the community?
It's true that people will still look for a compatibility in values, including religious and political ones.
ReplyDeleteBut Brendan's little phrase "attractive attracts attractive" is true in what I've obvserved. And it means that three high quality lefty men went for three classically attractive feminine women, rather than for modern girl personality types.
The way I have observed it is that there are some people for whom religious and political views are dealbreakers, and some for whom they are not. Attraction is a dealbreaker for everyone, regardless of whether religious and political views are dealbreakers.
Brendan attraction is no longer a dealbreaker in the new reality. The West is being balkanized and this phenomenon is spreading around the world thanks to globalization.
ReplyDeleteNot everybody can around the upper-class like you can Brendan. I'm sick and tired of this "high-status I'm so tolerant" crappish attitude. You people do NOT tolerate genuine conservatives. You people hate, hate, hate traditional religious people. This hurts working class and middle class men and leaves every other woman who is not rich, a single mother.
Keep on licking the feet of high-status men with their UMCs or UCs worthless housewifes who do nothing in their time and rely everything on nannies.
Please keep your god forsaken alpha leftist liberals.
No moderation. No compromise. No more crap.
The West has died. Stop living like "moderation" is possible. The West is dead. The USA is a liberal nation with two liberal candidates running for President.
Moderation isn't what is needed to bring it back to life and to revive the West as a society.
And it is not needed for non-Westerners, because it is another word for poison. Poisoning non-Western locals with liberalism. And secularism.
>>Daybreaker said...
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't laugh at "hitting the wall". She's making the right move, and she could do herself a lot of good, provided she's also changed her mind about "the sort of high-flying alpha males we were all holding out for".<<
I agree. 'Hitting the wall' at 30 is a lot different from hitting the wall at 40! There's a good chance she'll do ok, although she might end up with a smaller family than she wanted, especially if she wants 3+ children.
Mark,
ReplyDeleteI wonder, what do you make of the website manboobz.com?
I personally despise it.
Please tell me what you think.
The problem is Marc,
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't get along with liberal douchebags.
I can honestly say that I'm single at 30 because I have values.
Sorry.
I must admit though....
ReplyDeleteIn highschool there was a guy I thought would be the Playboy and he actually married a woman in his early 20s. He really has turned out amazing with what a family man he has turned into. I hope I have a sons like that one day! His mom must be so proud!
I had a not-so-crush on a guy in highschool that used to make out with girls by the bathroom and while he would make out with the girl he would look at me evilly as I ate my lunch with my friends at a lunch table.
He got married by his mid twenties, but frankly...I saw his soul and if he isn't doing prostitutes on this side with his wife I would be shocked.
Everytime he posts on facebook 'working late, working on the weekend' (which is like every week) I shiver to myself. His wife is an absolute angel, though quite heavy.
Liberal men are a crapshoot...even if they do get married young.
It too her to 46!!!! to realize?
ReplyDeleteWhat's that? The wall * 3.
No more coffee for you Elizabeth, Brendan just points out the truth, he can no more change it than you.
Well, if you believe in evolutionary irony these women who saw themselves as naturally indispensable to humanity are being dispensed with by nature.
ReplyDeleteHow would their ancestors feel, knowing that hundreds of generations of DNA will self terminate in these women.
It borders on a form of biological rebellion, a willful act of caprice and resentment. With all of the natural advantages they were bequeathed by nature to choose the best of partners, they could think of nothing other than to mock it and commit genetic suicide.
The anagnorisis in this Gnostic drama is upon us.
How would their ancestors feel, knowing that hundreds of generations of DNA will self terminate in these women.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point, and one that we should emphasise in a traditionalist culture, namely that we are a product of countless generations who struggled to create a "line" which has led on to us. For this line to stop represents a terrible defeat for many hundreds or thousands of lives which came before us.
"The moral of the story is that it's unwise for young women to buy into the idea that they should be feisty, assertive, androgynous, butt-kicking, mannish, drunken, loud personalities and that they can safely wait until their 30s to partner up."
ReplyDeleteI don't think butch-feminism has caught on that much. As far as the physical attributes you mention above, almost all women still aspire to be feminine in appearance - heels, short skirts, cleavage, teased hair, etc.
But the personality aspects pushed by feminism, "feisty, assertive, mannish, drunken, loud" surely permeate the female SWPL crowd.