Monday, July 02, 2012

A feminist says "I do" too late

This is a post about a feminist shooting herself in the foot. It's also a post about the disconnect between what feminists tell other women and what they want for themselves.

Jessica Bennett is an American writer who met the man of her dreams when she was 23. When she was 24 her boyfriend proposed in a grand romantic fashion:
I loved him desperately. I knew, as much as I would ever know, that he was the one I wanted to be with. We balanced each other. I wanted to frame his dimples.

But she turned him down. She was a feminist who was oriented to career and independence. Still he stuck with her, whilst she devoted herself to writing tracts against marriage. One article she wrote put a positive spin on infidelity, another declared marriage to be an outdated institution, inferior to the European model of de facto relationships:
...when these egalitarian, independent couples decide not to marry at all, they lose none of that stability. Just take a look at couples in Europe: they’re happier, less religious, and more likely to believe that marriage is an outdated institution, and their divorce rate is a fraction of our own.

But what of the boyfriend who had so much wanted to marry her? What was his response to his girlfriend writing against marriage? This is what transpired between them:
I told my boyfriend about the article, and he rolled his eyes. I assured him it wasn’t about us, but he said it didn’t matter. Over the years, he explained, I had convinced him that he didn’t believe in marriage, either.

Ah, so all the cynical stuff wasn't supposed to apply to her own relationship. What she wanted and hoped for in her own relationship was one thing; what she wanted for the rest of society was another.

But she didn't manage to quarantine her relationship from her public beliefs. Her boyfriend took her at her word and lost his own belief in marriage. And just at the time that she was finally changing her mind and warming to the idea of a wedding:
Then one day, in the most tired of clich├ęs, I, too, started daydreaming about a wedding ... I began to wonder what he and I might wear, who would be there, and whether we’d write our own vows.

I brought the issue up tepidly, to feel him out. Lying in bed one night, I asked: “Do you still want to do it? Do you really not believe in it?”

“I’d marry you at City Hall,” he replied, then dropped it.

Another time, he threw my argument back at me: “Why do we need marriage? It’s only a piece of paper.”

Some time later he broke up with her abruptly and moved out:
We had spent seven years living in a 600-square-foot New York City apartment, inseparable and intertwined. Yet in the end, the relationship ended in one night. No discussion required.

Which now, after all those years of marshalling arguments against marriage, has led her to the view that,
there's something to be said for saying "I do".


  1. Feminists suffer a bad disconnection. They can't see that the reason Europeans have lower divorce rates is because they don't marry at all (e.g. lower marriage rates = lower divorce rates). Europeans separate all of the time (cohabitation is not that stable) and they practice infidelity as well as other non-monogamous practices. Their "happiness" is an illusion because it has lead to the death of Western civilization. Their "happiness" is more akin to hedonism.

    If you keep saying that you don't believe in marriage then don't get angry nor regret when you miss out on it. I have come to the conclusion that the modern attitude towards marriage are these two:

    "Marriage is obsolete... except when it comes to homosexuals."

    "I'm against divorce... yet I support feminism with all my might."

    It's their typical strategy: they RUINED the institution of marriage with feminism and the sexual revolution, yet they pretend that they care so much about marriage and that we are the ones to blame. How fantastical.

  2. Upper-class feminist women are shouting with hysteria how they are supposedly the last guardians of marriage when the lower-classes are completely abandoning it. They always seldom mention how the lower-classes are full of minorities and how they don't drive the divorce rate since they don't get married in the first place (hint of the ones who do marry: strong liberated progressive women marrying late). All of these SWPL snotty women need to look in the mirror. You don't set the house on fire and then pretend that you will stop the fire.

  3. Elizabeth, it's difficult to get divorce statistics that aren't misleading in one way or another.

    But you're correct that low marriage rates in Europe distort the crude divorce rate figures. If instead of measuring rates per 1000 population you instead measure rates per 100 married couples then the highest divorce rates at the moment are in Belgium, Sweden and the Czech Republic (see here).

    The European rates would be even worse if de facto partnerships were included in the statistics, as these break up at a considerably higher rate.

  4. Where is Jesse to tell us that the man should have sucked it up and married her anyway, as his Manly Duty or something?

  5. Ah, so all the cynical stuff wasn't supposed to apply to her own relationship. What she wanted and hoped for in her own relationship was one thing; what she wanted for the rest of society was another

    This is almost the defining condition of the left, and sometimes lefties will actually admit to it. For example: Lefties are tireless advocates for forcing the Boy Scouts to allow homosexual scoutmasters... but they'd NEVER send their OWN son on a camping trip with such! Somehow it's okay for other people's kids but not for theirs. My answer is, that conservatives care about ALL children, not just our own! They don't know how to respond to this.

    Due to a quirk of fate, I have had the privilege of associating with a number of rather rich, powerful, famous individuals (though none of those descriptors apply to me) -- some are celebrities, and others are the producers and financiers behind the celebrities. Nice people, for the most part.

    But let me tell you something about the enterntaiment industry: They do NOT live the lifestyle they depict in their movies or music. Not at all! Most of them live quiet, family-centered lives in upscale suburbs -- far, far removed from the promiscuity and chaos that their movies portray.

    In short, they have liberal ideology (with a few exceptions), but THEY PERSONALLY live like conservatives. They know the conservative way of life works, they follow it themselves, but for some odd reason, they refuse to advocate it.

    I have NO personal experience with porn stars or producers but it's my understanding that their situation is similar; that most of the women in porn are married and have stable relationships, that the only "cheating" they do, is "on set". Outside the studio they are monogamous and live normal lives, more or less. Once again: they advocate and potray liberal lifestyles, but privately they live conservatively.

    This Jessica person is a classic example of this. Her ideology said one thing, her heart's desire said another. Only in her case, her liberal ideology prevented her from achieving her conservative goal. If she'd somehow managed to hold onto that guy and marry him, she'd be yet another "conservative liberal", just like the Hollywood producers and actors who took over and "mansionized" the neighborhood where i grew up. (Not that there's anything wrong with that... most of them are quite nice people and good neighbors.)

  6. The only thing I can see that is going to save Europe from it's suicide is to reveille the warrior spirit. A major war from an outside aggressor is needed in order to wake up Europe.

  7. "A major war from an outside aggressor is needed in order to wake up Europe."

    An outside aggressor is already occupying them -- to whom they surrendered without a fight, even thought defeating that aggression would have been trivially easy.

    If that won't wake them up, nothing will. Ergo, they aren't going to wake up.

  8. In short, they have liberal ideology (with a few exceptions), but THEY PERSONALLY live like conservatives.

    Sounds like the other members of my own family. They are liberal academics but have quite conservative family lives.

    It's almost like a kind of game, or a demonstration of social skills; there's an unwritten understanding that you hold to a certain set of liberal beliefs about the world but that you don't push these beliefs too far in how you organise your own family life.

    The problem is that the public ideology is likely in the long run to impact on the private family life.

    For instance, I've noticed that the young men in my extended family are starting to lose their study/work ethic. That's hardly surprising given that the public ideal they've been brought up with is one of female careerism.

    Something else I've noticed is that the latest generation of Anglo men in my workplace is marrying out - they are mostly marrying Asian women.

    Again, that's not surprising given they've been brought up with a public ideology which tells them that a good person identifies with the "other" rather then with their own and that so many middle-class Anglo women are hesitant about marrying or committing before the age of 30.

    So I don't think the liberal Anglo communities are going to survive on the basis of "preach liberalism but live conservatively".

  9. A major war from an outside aggressor is needed in order to wake up Europe.

    The immediate problem is what is inside the head of the average Westerner.

    Once liberalism influences the "concept of reality" of a person it's difficult to bring them back, particularly given the lack of institutional support for an alternative traditionalist view of things.

    So it seems to me that the immediate task is a 'gathering' one - of bringing together the people with a more traditionalist mindset and then of clarifying and articulating the traditionalist view within this group.

    Once that is done then the next step is to build institutional support.

    The final step is then to make use of the periodic waves of opportunity that keep rolling in.

    The first step is a difficult one because there is no pre-existing level of organisation or finances to make things happen in an effective and professional way.

    And I don't think we're quite done yet with the clarification and articulation of our own political position.

    A final issue we have to confront is that many are likely to become daunted or demoralised at the task we face. It can seem easier to "win" by simply rebadging defeats as victories.

    So we need to discourage defeatism at the same time as we stay realistic about what we are confronting.

  10. Something else I've noticed is that the latest generation of Anglo men in my workplace is marrying out - they are mostly marrying Asian women. Again, that's not surprising given they've been brought up with a public ideology which tells them that a good person identifies with the "other"

    I think this is an incomplete explanation. I have an ethnic awareness, and I would rather marry a White and have children with her, but frankly I prefer the intimate company of Asian girls, not because I am endeared to "the other" but because Asian girls are feminine. A small and superficial example: most of the Asian girls I've been with, their hands are so well manicured, like porcelain dolls, amazing. That kind of feminine detail, that fragility that awakens a romantic desire in me is completely absent from all the White girls I know. They just don’t have that femininity. And the example I've given can be a metaphor for attitude and disposition too. No, it's not about "the other" Mark, it's about something more profound.

  11. that fragility that awakens a romantic desire in me

    I know what you mean when you say this. In the 1990s, I had to put up with my female peers first of all wearing androgynous grunge outfits, then "lesbian chic" and then black power suits. I found it a turn off.

    I do think, though, that it is possible for Western women to be classy and feminine - women like Livinia Nixon and Hayley Westenra spring to mind.

    Anyway, your comment is a reminder to fathers like myself that we have to impart a certain wisdom to our daughters, including the knowledge that a man's instincts are more likely to be switched on when a woman shows a feminine fragility or vulnerability - not a hopelessness (too high maintenance) but not a loudly asserted independence either.

  12. A man would have to have committed a very serious crime indeed to be worthy of the punishment of being married to a typical middle class Anglo woman. Might not some leniency be shown, perhaps the sentence could be reduced to 20 years on the roads in irons instead? All humour aside, I shouldn't blame those young fellows who prefer to marry Asians. I think that very many now know instinctively that the end is coming, & sooner rather than later. I suppose they want a bit of domestic happiness to help alleviate somewhat the abject misery & hopelessness which constitute the very essence of modern life. Nothing can stop the Chastisement of God predicted by His Most Holy Mother at Fatima at this point. Too many babies have been brutally murdered in the womb, robbed of ever attaining the Beatific Vision of The Living God. Too many abominations have been done, & not only done, but glorified & reveled in. It is very difficult to think of an example of the depravity of mankind in all of history which even comes near to equalling, let alone surpassing the vile stinking rot that is the modern west. The Aztecs sacrified victims to appease their idols, so that, as they saw it the greater part of the people would be saved by the idol granting them a good harvest & so forth. The moderns murder their children so they will not have the bother of raising them & can instead go on fornicating & wallowing in filth & abomination of every kind. I fear that much of the apostate west will be reduced to smouldering ruins, immolated as were those ancient cities, Sodom & Gommorah which they have striven with such ardour to surpass in every kind of iniquity, in every sort of vileness which is a stench in the Nostrils of God. It seems better to use the time we have left to do penance & prepare to die well, should it prove to be our time. It's coming for all of us sooner or later, another thing that moderns hate to contemplate, but that ought to reflected upon all the more if we hope to stand before God as sheep & not goats on the great & terrible day of Judgement. May God have mercy on us all.

  13. Anon,

    We should be oriented to the good, no matter what evils surround us. And so we should resist as far as we can the dissolving influence of liberal modernity. One thing we do have in our power is to marry, to be good spouses and to raise the next generation.

    I don't think that all middle-class Anglo women deserve to be rejected. Yes, there are some mercenary types out there (but that's hardly an unknown quality amongst Asian women either). Yes, some Anglo women have been influenced by a culture of feminist entitlement - but, again, there are women of other ethnicities who are much the same.

    And the women I meet in my suburb are mostly friendly, feminine and family oriented. Divorce here is rare, partly I expect because the culture of family life is still relatively healthy.

  14. Mark Richardson said.

    Sounds like the other members of my own family. They are liberal academics but have quite conservative family lives.

    This is great paradox of American Christianity. Churches preach liberal and live conservative or they preach conservative and live liberal.

  15. Churches preach liberal and live conservative or they preach conservative and live liberal.

    This doesn't happen on a grand scale. You must see very strange churches. It also appeals to the liberal notions that somehow we are all "hypocrites" inside and that appearance nor talking matters. Yeah right. I'm wearing a modest dress and I AM a virgin, not a "slut" hiding my feelings thank you very much liberal idiots.

  16. "In short, they have liberal ideology (with a few exceptions), but THEY PERSONALLY live like conservatives."

    I'm pretty sure their tune will start changing when they see the freshly minted cads their policies have created knock up their daughters and then hit the road.

    Sympathy for alternative lifestyles and promiscuous behaviour is hard to maintain when it starts harming you and your loved ones.

  17. I really can't help but feel sorry for women like this, who only discovered, too late, the terrible, terrible wages of the nonsense they've bought for years.

    On the other hand, her boyfriend seems like kind of a puss.

  18. I agree with Anon 10:48.

    I strongly disapprove of marrying outside one's race, but most young (and now, not so young) white women simply do not register as romantic possibilities. Their male mannerisms, immodesty, and cultivated lack of feminine reserve and modesty seems to deactivate me sexually. I can interact with them fine, and even enjoy the company of some of them, but I feel no attraction.

    On the other hand, the other day I saw a young (probably Korean Catholic) woman in a lovely grey ankle-length dress, white socks, black shoes and an immaculate white blouse. I don't even remember what her face looked like (I was trying not to stare), but her deeply feminine modesty and grace caused me to do an almost cartoonish open mouth double-take.

    It's sad to think how much women of my generation have lost. Their parents often knew better for themselves, but failed to teach their daughters how to be more than inevitably unsatisfactory imitations of men.

  19. Whoa! Great article. Silly woman, they always think their ideas and attitudes can be contained to affecting how, and who, only they choose.

  20. Their male mannerisms, immodesty, and cultivated lack of feminine reserve and modesty seems to deactivate me sexually.

    But how could it be otherwise? Look at what happens to girls these days. They grow up watching "kick ass" heroines and listening to Rihanna type music. Some will play boyish sports. In their later teen years the more upper class ones will be put under significant academic burdens. They will then start to have relationships in a culture which appreciates them for being "hot" more than anything else. The upper class ones will then be put under considerable career burdens, whilst being expected to delay family relationships till their 30s. They will be influenced by feminist lifetstyle magazines and shows like Sex and the City.

    It's a testament to the force of human nature that numbers of Western women do still eventually settle into a motherhood/wife role, though often at a much later stage in life.

    My advice would be not to expect a ready made, complete wife but to find a woman who is basically sound in orientation and to give her some time in an environment which is more supportive of her femininity and womanhood.

  21. Mr Richardson, your comment at 10.29 regarding taking one of these poor deluded creatures, & attempting to de-programme her is certainly feasible, but it is also fraught with danger. In order to have any hope of success one would have to strictly control all access to the outside world so that ideological contamination from the hideous spiritual contagion which is modern society would be prevented. No television, no "friends" from her old life certainly. Internet use would have to be carefully monitored if permitted at all, the same with books & wireless programmes. In this worthless day & age, the price of failure would likely be a gaol sentence. Unlawful deprivation of liberty or some such nonsense would be the charge. The women know that the tyrants, or more accurately the tyrants' lackeys will always take their side; they know this much even if they are generally too stupid, or else simply don't care to discover exactly why this is so, which is that it helps to finish off the family, an essential part of the master plan to set up a communist world dictatorship. Modern people after all generally don't care to look into things like cause & effect. They find thinking hateful & want only to be entertained. How sad that they are so much nearer to the beasts than their forefathers were. All because their parents allowed them to absorb from the television, or else actively taught them themselves that the only purpose of existence is to gratify themselves without restraint, & that they ought to do whatever makes them feel good, if they can get away with it. It's too bad that the few who remain faithful to Our Lord can't escape to some uninhabitated island & thus escape this modern Babylon, this is another curse of modernity, there is no place to go at this point. The whole earth has become one giant open sewer. Such is life.

  22. "In short, they have liberal ideology (with a few exceptions), but THEY PERSONALLY live like conservatives.

    Sounds like the other members of my own family. They are liberal academics but have quite conservative family lives."

    Yeah, apparently a fellow by the name Charles Murray penned some book about this topic the other day.

  23. To Anonymous.

    What you have suggested is not what Mark is talking about. You're discussing kidnapping. Just the suggestion, should it reach feminist ears would be kindling to their fires.

    As for those talking about finding a wife from i.e. the Philippines- please remember the risks. The least is using you for a green card and at the worst these women can leave you back for their home country- once you have had children, with them. Any liberal judge in a divorce would take one look at your wife and consider you a 'barbarian' who has "taken advantage" instead of the reverse.

    Australian women have more sense than you give them. I am a young woman. I'm a virgin who prefers skirts and dresses, femininity to running around in suits. The problem is also the men indoctrinated by feminists like this. A sadly prominent feminist is Ita Buttrose who talks of the privileges she has created for women. Most women take no heart in the world she and her unhinged sisters have created. Her last interview was very close to a horror film in nature except this was real. I was already horrified by Tony Blair's wife's comments about how women who can stay at home with their children and do so are wasting themselves and missing out on a fulfilling career.

  24. Well, that's what I expected it to be called (kidnapping, that is). It is however, the only way in which one could have any hope of preventing an eventual going back to the vomit, so to speak of feminism. That's why it's hopeless. Modern women, for the most part, are much too weak-minded to resist the incessant communist/feminist conditioning which is transmitted from the television, & from their "friends" every day. The very thought of being thought eccentric by others fills most women with an indescribable horror. It could almost be called a fate worse than death from their deluded point of view. This is why they'll always follow the party line regardless of how much misery it may bring them. Such is life. I'm old enough now that thinking of possible solutions to the situation as it stands today is really more of a thought experiment for me than anything else. I really don't think that there's any hope of reversing things at this point. It's all gone much too far for that.

  25. Anon,

    You're overstating it. My wife does show some influences of modernity. But in general traditional family life exercises a stronger sway over her. And it seems to be the same with the other women in my suburb. If you give a woman a home, some kids and a husband - particulary if you give her time at home to bond with the children - then you end up in a lot of cases with something like a traditional wife and mother.

  26. Hi Mark!

    The hypocrisy in America is perfectly illustrated by Yankee and other liberals heading for the hills of the remnants of the Old South of North Carolina. It has mountains that keep the temperature moderate and a conservative culture without you know what culture: blacks. The liberals go to the white mountains, not the cities containing blacks. Americans will hear this much more than Australians because Americans don't watch the same Media. So pay attention Americans to name North Carolina.