Wednesday, October 19, 2011

Cameron against open borders?

British PM David Cameron has given a major speech on immigration. The gist of it is that he wants to bring immigration levels back under control and to focus on those who are likely to contribute to the British economy.

The speech is worth reading, if only because Cameron details some of the rorts in the system. Parts of the speech I found most interesting include these excerpts:

...there's no doubt that badly controlled immigration has compounded the failure of our welfare system and allowed governments and employers to carry on with the waste of people stuck on welfare when they should be working.

...the very term "Points Based System" has proved to be misleading. The rhetoric implies that each and every potential migrant is carefully and individually assessed with only those scoring the most points able to enter the country. But the reality was very different. Instead of a system of points for individuals there were a range of low minimum thresholds where anyone who met them was automatically entitled to come, almost on a self-selection basis, to work and study and in many cases bring dependants.

...The reality was that someone with a modest salary and a Bachelor's degree in any subject from any college in the world could come over here and do any job they liked. And of course the system was a magnet for fraudsters. Plenty never found work at all. One study showed that about a third of those sampled only found low skilled roles working as shop assistants, in takeaways and as security guards.

...Take the next tier - Tier 2, for migrants coming here who actually did have job offers. Large numbers of this group were actually coming to do low-level work which many people have rightly felt those on welfare should be trained for but which instead went to migrants.

...It's a system where migrants got the choice to come, rather than us having the choice of migrants. And it's a system which was totally unfair which people rightly feel added to the sense that "something for nothing" was the order of the day.

...In April we introduced a limit on the number of economic migrants able to come to the UK from outside the European Economic Area. Many predicted that this wouldn't work and that it would stop British businesses getting the workers they need. But the evidence shows this just hasn't been the case. That limit of 20,700 for the year - has been undersubscribed each and every month since it was introduced with businesses currently using less than half of their monthly quotas.

...around two-thirds of the increase in employment since 1997, was accounted for by foreign-born workers. Even now people are managing to come to the UK and find a job. Yet throughout all of those years we consistently had between 4 and 5 million people on out of work benefits. You can understand it from the employer's point of view. Confronted by a failing welfare system, shortcomings in our education system and an open door immigration system they can choose between a disillusioned and demotivated person on benefits here in the UK or an Eastern European with the get up and go to come across a continent to find work. Or they can choose between an inexperienced school leaver here or someone five years older coming to Britain with the experience they need. But that situation is simply not good enough. We have to change things.

...when it comes to bogus colleges and bogus students we have to be equally clear: they have no place in our country. In June last year in New Delhi, for example, more than a third of student applications verified by the visa section were found to contain forged documents. Private colleges now have to face far more rigorous checks on the quality of their education provision before they can sponsor international students. Since May 2010 the UK Border Agency has revoked the licences of 97 education providers. A further 36 currently have their licences suspended.

...A sample of more than 500 family migration cases found that over 70 per cent of UK-based sponsors had post-tax earnings of less than £20,000 a year. When the income level of the sponsor is this low, there is an obvious risk that the migrants and their family will become a significant burden on the welfare system and the taxpayer. So we have asked the Migration Advisory Committee to look at the case for increasing the minimum level for appropriate maintenance.

...We're also consulting on how to tackle abuse of the system, to make sure that family migrants who come here are in a genuine relationship with their partner. Time and again, visa officers receive applications from spouses or partners sponsoring another spouse or partner soon after being granted settlement in the UK suggesting that the original marriage or partnership was a sham simply designed to get them permanent residence here.

...If we take the steps set out today and deal with the all the different avenues of migration, legal and illegal then levels of immigration can return to where they were in the 1980s and 90s - a time when immigration was not a front rank political issue. And I believe that will mean net migration to this country will be in the order of tens of thousands each year, not the hundreds of thousands every year that we have seen over the last decade.

Cameron seems to be genuinely set against open borders. Why the break with open borders orthodoxy?

There are several possibilities. He might, for instance, be trying to win back ground from the BNP. It could be, too, that this is part of his concern about "Broken Britain" - that he doesn't want the further growth of an unemployed underclass.

Right-liberals are often focused on economic criteria, and it might be that Cameron believes it is more economically rational to orient immigration to those who are going to contribute most economically; he does in his speech talk about "getting the right people we need for our economy".

So arguments about the economy and social cohesion seem to have led him to reject an uncontrolled, open borders approach to immigration.

Most of Cameron's policies so far have been disappointingly liberal, but it could be that he does present a genuine alternative to the Labour Party on this important issue. The real test will be whether he really can bring immigration numbers down to the levels of the 1980s.

31 comments:

  1. "So arguments about the economy and social cohesion seem to have led him to reject an uncontrolled, open borders approach to immigration."

    If only Australian politicians would reject an uncontrolled, open borders approach to immigration.

    As far as I can tell, the "conservative" Tony Abbott supports high immigration nearly as much as Labor.

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  2. Probably the riots and Anders Breivik have woken Cameron up to the fact that their society is indeed broken, and it's time for some damage control.

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  3. Don't believe a word he says.He'd like to be re-elected wouldn't he? He just senses the electoriate changing stance.

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  4. Tony Abbott on immigration: "My instinct is to extend to as many people as possible the freedom and benefits of life in Australia."

    http://australianconservative.com/2010/01/tony-abbott-australia-day-has-many-meanings/

    In other words, Abbott believes in open borders.

    I just don't get it.

    How can anybody who claims to be a cultural conservative support massive, population-replacing immigration?

    Conservatives want to keep things the way they are - that includes our culture and people. Drastically changing the demographic composition of Australia into something it has never been is hardly a conservative position.

    Perhaps Abbott thinks Australia can remain a culturally Western nation even it it no longer has a majority Western i.e. European Christian population.

    I am, however, doubtful.

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  5. Most of Cameron's policies so far have been disappointingly liberal, but it could be that he does present a genuine alternative to the Labour Party on this important issue. The real test will be whether he really can bring immigration numbers down to the levels of the 1980s.
    Politicians speak and speak ... and by some magical coincidence things do not move that way.
    Only fools believe to what politicians say.

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  6. "The real test will be whether he [Cameron] can bring immigration numbers down".

    Recent news reports inform us that since the ConLib administration came to power last year, immigration to Britain has gone up 20 per cent.

    The United Kingdom - England in particular - is being done like a dog's breakfast.

    Or, if one prefers to be more blunt about the matter; open borders, an "open" society, multi-culturalism/racialism and even credit restriction are standard passive modus operandi to destroy a country - to destroy a people. A war without the military hardware?

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  7. How can anybody who claims to be a cultural conservative support massive, population-replacing immigration?

    Agreed. The term "conservative" makes sense if you are someone who is trying to conserve aspects of your own tradition against the forces of liberal modernity. But mass immigration doesn't conserve, it radically changes and ultimately destroys.

    Politicians speak and speak

    Especially near election time! Of course, you are right. That's why I suggested in my post that we wait and see whether Cameron really does bring the numbers down.

    I will say, though, that Cameron did seem unusually sincere in the speech. He detailed very specific and concrete ways he intended to reform the system.

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  8. Are most of the recent immigrants to Britain coming from inside or outside the EU?

    If they are from other EU countries, then there is really not a great deal Cameron can do to curb the influx short of pulling the UK out of the union altogether.

    Besides, what's so wrong with Eastern European immigrants?

    I would be more than happy if Australia opened its borders to large numbers of Polish immigrants. Instead, we get hordes of unassimilable non-Westerners.

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  9. "Besides, what's so wrong with Eastern European immigrants?"

    There is a lot wrong with them. For a start they are not British (English, Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish Protestants) and are of a different ethnic group. They are not Protestant. They may have white skin but their ethnicity, culture, religion, history and therefore values and world view are Different and certainly not British.

    Just because people are willing to work hard does not mean that they should be allowed to live in Britain and in the long term Eastern Europeans will transform and destroy Britain as much as any other alien immigrants.

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  10. He is trying to make some water between himself and the lib-dems. The minortiy govt over there is a joke.

    Sometimes it is a funny one.

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  11. He's against open borders now that it's conveniently too late (short of an honest civil war) to stop Britain's slide into the clutches of Islam.

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  12. "For a start they are not British (English, Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish Protestants) and are of a different ethnic group. They are not Protestant. They may have white skin but their ethnicity, culture, religion, history and therefore values and world view are Different and certainly not British."

    I lived in Australia in the 1970s when there were a good many Greek and Italian immigrants. The exact same thing could be said of them as of the Poles: different ethnicity, culture, religion, history. Not British, not Australian. Yet that said, my recollection is that the Greek and Italian kids were assimilated pretty well into Australian culture. Other than their alien last names, you couldn't tell they weren't regular native-born Australians (and indeed a good many of them were born in Australia to immigrant parents). Australia was far better off importing them than it is the Asians who are the principal immigrant group these days. Britain is far better off with Poles than it is with Nigerians, Jamaicans, and Pakis.

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  13. "Problems with Mixed-Race Marriages and Relationships"

    http://sociobiologicalmusings.blogspot.com/2011/10/problems-with-mixed-race-marriages-and.html

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  14. ""For a start they are not British (English, Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish Protestants) and are of a different ethnic group."

    Modern genetics doesn't say so. Bryan Syke's Blood of the Isles shows that all of the British Isles are quite homogenous.

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  15. @ Anon Thursday, 20 October 2011 2:37:00 PM AEDT

    This isn't true at all. Australian Greeks , italians etc are the only 'white' group I know of in the world that gleefully refers to itself as not 'white'.
    They also stand out from British Australians. We are Northern European you see.
    I don't agree we were better off importing them. From history they kicked off the white guilt industry and open borders policies in Australia.
    How is it that a group of people from Europe can claim the race card against apparently fellow Europeans and still be considered like us or our allies.
    Their claims of "racism" in the past are pathetic too.
    "someone made fun of my salami sandwhich so I have every right to destroy white [northern European] society... i mean racism"

    The funny side to this stupidty is that a lot of old Greek and italian immigrants are being caught out for saying very un-PC comments in public and being sacked. This is by the political correctness they helped perpetuate by getting upset over the most harmless school bullying ive ever heard.
    Compare this with the average white kid in an ethnic dominated school fearing for his life and needing protection.
    Gee I wish someone made fun of my sandwhich in highschool instead of racially , verbally and physically assaulting me daily for my fair skin colour and light hair!

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  16. "There is a lot wrong with them. For a start they are not British (English, Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish Protestants) and are of a different ethnic group."

    So, they are Catholic Slavs, not Anglo-Celtic Protestants.

    However, they still share a common European Christian heritage with the British.

    They are certainly a much better fit than, say, Pakistanis, Nigerians or Chinese.

    Sure, in the perfect world, there would be no immigration into the UK period (except maybe members of the British diaspora returning to the motherland). However, in the age of mass immigration, being swamped by white, generally conservative Christian peoples from continental Europe is certainly far better than being swamped by non-Europeans.

    As I said, I would be quite happy if Australia was flooded by Polish immigrants.

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  17. I will say, though, that Cameron did seem unusually sincere in the speech. He detailed very specific and concrete ways he intended to reform the system.
    I have seen and heard many politicians who seemed very sincere, their claims made sense, were logical and most important of all could be done without serious obstacles (technical or political). But after elections they didn't even try.
    And I am not hat old at all.

    Do not trust politicians until they act the way of their claims - in harsh times when anything goes wrong and against them.

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  18. "This isn't true at all. Australian Greeks , italians etc are the only 'white' group I know of in the world that gleefully refers to itself as not 'white'."

    Maybe that's true now, but I can assure you that back in the 1970s, the Greeks and Italians would have been profoundly insulted (and would probably attack you) if you called them non-white.

    "From history they kicked off the white guilt industry and open borders policies in Australia."

    I'd like to see some proof of this. My strong suspicion is that the people behind white guilt and open borders were (and are) white Leftists of British descent. The Australian political and academic elite that ended the White Australia policy in the mid-1970s certainly was not Greek and Italian.

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  19. "So, they are Catholic Slavs, not Anglo-Celtic Protestants.

    However, they still share a common European Christian heritage with the British. "

    The term common European Heitage is a loose one. The nations of Europe whilst white and Christian are profoundly different from each other. The types of culture,economies, societies and institutions which they creaste are very different. Catholic Slavs and Anglo Protestants are not compatible in the same country.

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  20. anon @ Thursday, 20 October 2011 11:01:00 PM AEDT

    You want proof of this?! Do you even live in Australia. Racism from 'wogs' towards British 'Anglo' Australians is endemic in the country.
    Every movie or tv show that has ever dealt with mediterraneans has been a liberal lesson in 'white guilt' or vilifying and mocking Anglo Australians.
    Examples such as 'the wog boy' or
    the sbs series 'fat pizza' In one particular episode young 'Aussie' teens were beat up by a group of 'wogs' just for being Australian.

    The behaviour and even accent of violent lebanese in Australia comes from Greek and italians.
    The Lebanese and other mediterranean ethnicities in Australia seem to feel a common bond.
    The behaviour of themselves not regarding themselves as white is peculiar to some maybe but it has been encouraged by Liberals in Australia in the same way Aborigines or African Americans have been encouraged to blame whites and resent white society.
    Its this which you don't seem to grasp. Leftists use interest groups to further their goals. Even creating and fabricating narratives of discrimination when there are no suitable interest groups.
    Basically they will play the race card in a similar way to Indians and Africans. Its only just recently starting to backfire on them because there is of course a hierachy to the minority industry.
    Italians and Greeks are finding they are no longer the only minority in Australia and being from Europe they are behind non-Europeans in the queue. The fact that 50 year old mediterraneans are getting sacked for using 'racist' language then crying foul and trying to play the race card by saying "I can't be racist i'm a 'wog' i've lived with racism all my life, i was teased because of my salami lunch when i was a kid in the 50s"
    Is a great irony. The lunch line by the way while sounding silly is actually a re-used scenario. Nearly every Greek appearing in interviews or movies will claim they faced horrible discrimination because of their lunch. It was used in the movie 'the wog boy' for instance. Its the liberal narrative ploy.

    I can't believe the extent that 'white' Anglos and other Northern Europeans have been played for fools for so many years in such pathetically simple ways.
    If there was a weakness inherent in the Anglosphere it has been our inability to even identify our enemies.
    I personally will not deal with Southern european Australians. I quit a job because the open racism I faced from them was intolerable.
    I know what they are about and refuse to trust them.

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  21. If only Australia would go back to 1980 immigration levels.

    One could only dream.

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  22. "You want proof of this?! Do you even live in Australia. Racism from 'wogs' towards British 'Anglo' Australians is endemic in the country."

    Read what I said more carefully. I am not talking about TODAY, I am talking about the early 1970s. The 'wogs' had no reason to bash Anglos back then, because there were essentially no non-whites in the country and therefore there was NO benefit to be gained by pretending to be a disadvantaged non-white. When I lived in Sydney in the late 1960s/early 1970s, there were literally NO non-whites in my school or my neighborhood. The only "Anglo-bashing" I remember came not from Greeks and Italians but from Irish-Australians who grumbled about "Pommies".

    My question, again, was what proof is there that the Greeks and Italians started the Anglo-bashing? You haven't established that it wasn't British-descended white Leftists who started it.

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  23. @anon Friday, 21 October 2011 3:31:00 PM AEDT

    I don't think I will listen to you. You have no clue of Australian history or contemporary history.
    You remind me of liberals that ask for proof when anyone mentions racial crimes against whites or mentions DNA differences or that the sun will rise tomorrow or anything they don't agree with.
    They demand "Proof" which is to say you don't want proof you just have a personal issue with what I say.
    You find the proof if you are genuninely interested.
    Also Australia will be and always should of been for Australians not your Greek friends.

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  24. There is alot of dubious claims being made here about Greeks And Italians attitude to White Anglo Celt Australians.

    I won't get into that here.

    I want to make a point about my personal attitude to Immigration to this country.

    Until a few years ago I was full on supportive of migration to this country. Non-discriminatory at all levels.

    But this was based on the history of Greek and Italian immigration. It may have been quite a large segment, but what I did not realise was that it was finite.

    What has changed is that todays migrant's come from a virtual inexhaustible source; Asia. And I wonder (fear?) where this will all end.

    Also, I always believed that those who supported it were my fellow leftist's. And those who were against it were evil right wing racists.

    I have realised that increased immigration is perhaps really being pushed by those who want cheap labour. Although I still believe those against it are in the majority fueld by irrational prejudice, I have to concur about the feared ultimate outcome.

    I also recall Mark here making a comment that we have ended up with a blancmange of bland shopping centre style 'multiculturalism'.

    Savvas Tzionis

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  25. @ anon 4:39:00 PM,

    You are the one who is clueless. I am telling you what the situation was back in the 1960s/1970s, and you don't even have the slightest comprehension of how things were back then.

    If you are unable to provide even a shred of evidence for your claims, then your argument FAILS. You say I should go find the proof, but guess what, YOU made the argument so YOU have to prove it. But all you can do is call me names, which is simply pathetic.

    Name a SINGLE Greek or Italian-Australian who had anything to do with creating the white guilt industry. If you look at Mark's post on the "Sydney Push" you will see that the Leftist subculture of the time was ENTIRELY Anglo-Irish, not Greek or Italian.

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  26. @Savvas Tzionis
    Dubious? What is dubious about, The italian and Greek mafia in Australia?
    What is dubious about the Australian medias portrayal of Southern Europeans as victims of 'white' Anglo racism.
    What is dubious about Greeks/Italians claiming that Australian don't exist?
    What is dubious about racist Greeks and Italians claiming they can't be racist (due to lack of whiteness)
    What is dubious about Greeks and Italians prosecuting and vilifiying Australians for racism?
    What is dubious about inner city violence and crime spearheaded by Italians and Greek gangs?

    Italians and Greeks should of never come here. You were the thin wedge that started the balkanization of Australia. You will never be Australians maybe to some but I will never trust you. I know your kind to well you faux Europeans.

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  27. @anon Saturday, 22 October 2011 10:30:00 PM AEDT
    You don't get it because you are thick as two short planks.
    Southern Europeans were used by Leftists and the Southern Europeans are guilty of gleefully going along with it for advancement in Anglo British Australian society.
    They were the forerunners for forced multicuturalism and fascistic race laws.
    Is it a conincidence that the racial vilification laws in Victoria exist in the state with the highest number of Italian and Greek migrants?

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  28. Patrick Buchanan:

    "Can Western civilization survive the passing of the European peoples whose ancestors created it and their replacement by Third World immigrants? Probably not, for the new arrivals seem uninterested in preserving the old culture they have found.

    Those who hold the white race responsible for the mortal sins of mankind—slavery, racism, imperialism, genocide—may welcome its departure from history. Those who believe that the civilization that came out of Jerusalem, Athens, Rome and London to be the crowning achievement of mankind will mourn its passing."

    http://buchanan.org/blog/a-d-2041-%E2%80%93-end-of-white-america-4912

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  29. "They [Italians and Greeks) were the forerunners for forced multicuturalism and fascistic race laws."

    I disagree. They were simply "useful idiots" used by Australian leftists to push the multicultural agenda.

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  30. While Whitlam and his vile immigration minister, Al Grassby, buried what was left of the White Australia policy and introduced "multiculturalism" in its place, it was the "conservative" Malcolm Fraser, influenced by activists such as the Polish-born Jerzy Jubrzycki, who further advanced the multiculturalisation of Australia.

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  31. "Southern Europeans were used by Leftists and the Southern Europeans are guilty of gleefully going along with it for advancement in Anglo British Australian society."

    You're still too dumb to get the point -- and in fact, in this statement you are conceding my point, which is "that the people behind white guilt and open borders were (and are) white Leftists of British descent." The Greeks and Italians were FOLLOWERS of the northern European ethno-nationalist traitors, they were not the creators of the problem. If the Anglo-Irish Australians hadn't started the hate-whitey, hate-Australia multi-cultural trend, the Greeks and Italians would never have bandwagoned with this trend (because there would have been no such trend).

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