Monday, August 06, 2012

Belgian woman harassed on the street

A Belgian woman has made headlines by filming what happens when she walks down the streets of Brussels. Men of African (Muslim?) origin harass her, either hitting on her crudely or calling her names like whore or tramp.



She recorded this during just one afternoon in a "problematic quarter" of Brussels called Anneessenswijk.

In the version of the film shown at the Daily Mail, she interviews one of the immigrant men, who begins by blaming aspects of his own culture (women too much covered up causing frustration), but who then blames Western culture (the sexual objectification of women). By the end of the interview, a convenient scapegoat has been found (Western women aren't sufficiently emancipated, we need more feminism).

That deflects from two more obvious conclusions. First, that Western men aren't so bad after all when it comes to their everyday treatment of women and, second, that a percentage of the African men who hang out in Anneessenswijk have little respect for Western women, effectively creating a no go area for Belgian women who don't want to be harassed in the street.

If you're interested the whole video is posted here. It finishes in an interesting way, with a number of other women recounting their experiences of the area and the pressure they feel to move away.

31 comments:

  1. Ideally the mahommedans would be deported, but all the same, the woman is wearing immodest clothing. It's not nearly so bad as what a lot of them wear now, but it's nonetheless too short & too low, exposing too much of the chest & legs.

    The lecherous mahommedans have learned the norms of the neo-pagan west quite well. One could say that this is a case of immigrants successfully assimilating to the prevailing culture of their new country.

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  2. I lived in a Muslim country for several years as a teenager. Mostly, people were kind and polite, but there were times when men would throw rocks at me and call me a whore for no reason I could discern. I think just being a female in public was often provocation enough.

    While I have never experienced any harassment quite as severe from western men, being called a "semen receptacle" on a public street in front of my office, or being asked if I "swallow," or having various other lewd comments directed at me as I'm walking down the street minding my own business is not okay. The fact that the situation may be worse in Middle Eastern society does not get these men off the hook.

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  3. She isn't dressed like what they were calling her ("tramp", "whore"), and the aggressive black guy who kept asking her to have sex with him just proved how off-base they all were. Seriously? He just walked up to a woman walking down the street and pressed her for sex? What the hell does he think our women are? Prostitutes? Third Worlders don't belong in Europe. Full stop.

    As for the woman, sure, she's very beautiful. Friendly attention from men that wasn't just base lust would probably not have been so objectionable to her. That's not what this was. I don't blame her at all for feeling threatened by these thugs.

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  4. But as for you, Georgina,

    You wrote,

    "being called a "semen receptacle" on a public street in front of my office, or being asked if I "swallow," or having various other lewd comments directed at me as I'm walking down the street minding my own business is not okay."

    Really? Why not? Physically speaking, you are a "semen receptacle" and your mouth is quite capable of swallowing. Look, that may be crude, but so is a worldview that sees men as a just humans with a penis and women as just humans with an extra hole.

    You have convinced modern men to see women as nothing more than human beings with a vagina. Now you act surprised that they treat you like...a vagina?

    The only thing, according to your worldview, that separates you from their friends is that they can stick their penis in you. Thus, that becomes the defining way that they talk to you and think about you.

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  5. Georgina Charlotte/Doomed HarlotTuesday, 7 August 2012 at 06:36:00 GMT+10

    Bartholomew,

    Really?

    You really think that being a human being with a vagina means I should be treated as just a vagina? Did you miss the "human being" part? It's right there, even in your sorry attempt at restating my worldview.

    And I don't think men who engage in the kind of behavior I've described do so because they are so persuaded by feminism. After all, as Mark points out, street harassment tends to be more pervasive and severe among Middle Eastern people from cultures with the greatest hostility towards feminism.

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  6. Bartholomew does have a point here. If you reduce the connection between men and women to sex, then you're going to have a coarsening in the culture of relationships - and not just from the male side either. You only have to look at the pictures the Daily Mail publishes of the way some young British women behave on their nights off.

    True, women get harassed in Middle-Eastern countries with non-liberal attitudes to such matters. So there are other possible reasons for such things happening.

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  7. And in that multicultural paradise Sweden...

    "A report from organization Save the Children tells of how being a young Swedish girl today means feeling unsafe. The girls are scared of being raped, a possibility that appears very real to them.

    “It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl,” says Hamid, in an interview about another gang rape involving a Swedish girl and immigrant perps. “The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably f**ked before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries.”“It is far too easy to get a Swedish whore…… girl, I mean;” says Hamid, and laughs over his own choice of words. “Many immigrant boys have Swedish girlfriends when they are teenagers. But when they get married, they get a proper woman from their own culture who has never been with a boy. That’s what I am going to do. I don’t have too much respect for Swedish girls. I guess you can say they get f**ked to pieces.”

    The number of rape charges in Sweden has quadrupled in just above twenty years. Rape cases involving children under the age of 15 are six times as common today as they were a generation ago. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. Lawyer Ann Christine Hjelm, who has investigated violent crimes in one court, found that 85 per cent of the convicted rapists were born on foreign soil or by foreign parents."
    The New York Times and Sweden: The Dark Side of Paradise http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com.au/2006/05/new-york-times-and-sweden-dark-side-of.html

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  8. Georgina Chalotte/Doomed HarlotTuesday, 7 August 2012 at 09:21:00 GMT+10

    Who's reducing the connection between men and women to sex? Certainly not me!

    Just because the distinction between the sexes is physiological, it doesn't follow that the physiological is the only basis on which members of the opposite can and should connect. Quite the opposite in fact!

    I can't prove it, but I suspect that the rate of street harassment has gone down in the west in the past 30-40 years since the popularization of feminism. For example, when we lived in the states in the '70s, my mother got hooted and hollered almost every single time she went running. But I've been running since the mid-80s and I think I've only had that kind of thing happen to me once or twice. I suspect that it's because people have more respect now than in the past for the fact that women have their own athletic interests and don't just exist for the sexual enjoyment of passersby.

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  9. Georgina wrote,

    I seriously doubt any Middle Eastern man would call a woman "semen receptacle". That's a distinctly materialist view of woman which they simply lack.

    Now what's this about your having been sexually harassed while running only "once or twice" since the 80's? You are aware that at the beginning of this thread, you claimed white men aren't "off the hook" for "sexism" you claimed is nearly as bad as that of the Middle East?


    You should understand that if you don't retract one of these claims, I'll be forced to conclude you were simply lying.

    When the comparison is modern white men with modern Middle Eastern men, you push the anti-racist notion that while white men are barely better (if at all). You cite two examples of white "sexism" off-hand, as if the occurrence were an everyday experience and thereby show the relative harmlessness of multiracial immigration.

    When the comparison is modern white men with WWII white men, the difference is suddenly so profound that you've only been sexually harassed "once or twice" while running. You downplay modern white men's "sexism" in order to play up WWII men's "sexism" and show the success of feminism.

    So, which is it, Georgina? Shall we say that modern white men are fully converted feminists and thereby prove the evil sexism of WWII white men by contrast? Or shall we say that modern white men are unrepentant "sexists" and thereby prove the relative harmlessness of modern non-white men by contrast?

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  10. Georgina wrote,

    "Just because the distinction between the sexes is physiological, it doesn't follow that the physiological is the only basis on which members of the opposite can and should connect. Quite the opposite in fact!

    Wait, no actually that's exactly what that means. The physical distinction between men and women is, according to you, the only distinction between potential friends and potential lovers. Thus, the physical distinction becomes the only possible basis of an erotic attraction.

    Look, this is simple. Whatever you think is the basis of an erotic relationship, ask yourself, would I look for that in a friend? If the answer is yes, then that can not possibly be the basis of an erotic relationship, otherwise you would be erotically attracted to your friend. Make sense yet?

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  11. What the hell does he think our women are? Prostitutes?

    Unfortunately most modern Western women do act like prostitutes. So I'm not surprised that Third Worlders think this way.

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  12. The being human part only works in a society where you have not reduced men and women to interchangeable cogs in a machine. We don't live in a utopia where human life is valued, because of continual attack of values and social mores that didn't force people to be subjugated drones.

    Materialism has led to a callous disregard of a person's worth as a man or a woman. As human beings in your brave new world are reduced to nothing but chattel, by governments, businesses and so on. Perhaps in a utopia, morality and ethics would prevent the feminist daydream from subversion. But we live in the real world.

    So there's no right to cry about someone's status as a human being when it's been so devalued.
    Other men would have defended women in the street from such harassment, but now they keep walking. Why should it matter to them even if she's dressed moderately? Because they're taught that protecting women is misogynistic and a form of patriarchy.

    You're holding onto a utopia Georgina, which I find quite naive for a seasoned lawyer. When you strip away differences as if they're are superficial, you don't get equality. You just erode a man or woman's worth and a human being’s as an individual.

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  13. Who's reducing the connection between men and women to sex? Certainly not me!

    LOL!!!

    Sorry, I just came back from the other thread where you made a spectacle of yourself.

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  14. I was thinking about this situation a few months ago.

    It is precisely because of the western white man that western women are allowed the freedoms and luxuries they take for granted.
    Western males have the restraint and civilised behavior that allows women to for instance wear bikinis in public (I know some will not agree with this being acceptable)
    I've witnessed women in incredibly conservative and traditional communities gaily walk their suburbs in nothing but a bikini or a transparent "summer" clothes.
    This is just not an issue in our society (again I know people may disagree but I think there is a difference between swimwear and trashy provocative clothing)
    If the western male was to disappear from regions of the west then these freedoms and luxuries for western women would also disappear.

    Western women headed by feminists have won the battle of the sexes against western men and marginalised them. In their place they have invited foreign men who are nothing like their fellow men who they betrayed.

    Sexual molestation in the street is what western women have been rewarded with for helping replace their men.

    To the question of whether foreign men know what they are doing. Of course they are making an open attack against western men by sexually dominating western women.
    Its clearly "we are shafting your women and you can't do anything about it"

    And its true a western male cannot do anything about it.
    To even try and defend and offer protection or warnings to our women will get us automatically branded as a neo-nazi.

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  15. "What the hell does he think our women are? "

    mothers of his future children?

    "my mother got hooted and hollered almost every single time she went running. "

    so she's better looking than you.

    "because people have more respect now "

    and even feminists got tired of shouting "grrrl power" and the likes.

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  16. "It is precisely because of the western white man that western women are allowed the freedoms and luxuries they take for granted."

    But what anyone thinks is this:

    It's because of feminism that women have all these freedoms, it's because of feminism women can be anything and do anything(though that anything was brought into existence by men, feminism has corrected that), so for example:
    It's because of feminism

    "that women have their own athletic interests"

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  17. Georgina Charlotte/Doomed HarlotTuesday, 7 August 2012 at 16:37:00 GMT+10

    Bartholomew,

    Now what's this about your having been sexually harassed while running only "once or twice" since the 80's? You are aware that at the beginning of this thread, you claimed white men aren't "off the hook" for "sexism" you claimed is nearly as bad as that of the Middle East?


    You should understand that if you don't retract one of these claims, I'll be forced to conclude you were simply lying.

    When the comparison is modern white men with modern Middle Eastern men, you push the anti-racist notion that while white men are barely better (if at all). You cite two examples of white "sexism" off-hand, as if the occurrence were an everyday experience and thereby show the relative harmlessness of multiracial immigration.


    First of all, I am not pushing any notion one way or the other about whether "white men" in general are better in this area than Muslim men.

    In fact, I assume that street harassment is, in fact, less frequent and severe among western people than among Middle Eastern people. I will also go a step further and say that the treatment of women across the board is atrocious in most or all Middle Eastern cultures. I know because I've seen it first hand.

    But street harassment is still quite prevalent in the west in certain places. I've certainly experienced quite a bit of it, mostly in urban areas. I'm mainly saying that it's not okay to wink at the harassment problems we do have just because it may be worse in other cultures.

    I don't go running in urban areas. My main point in bringing that up was to show how the harassment has changed over time, likely in response to the recognition of women as human beings who exist for their own purposes rather than for the gratification of others.

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  18. Georgina Charlotte/Doomed HarlotTuesday, 7 August 2012 at 16:43:00 GMT+10

    Wait, no actually that's exactly what that means. The physical distinction between men and women is, according to you, the only distinction between potential friends and potential lovers. Thus, the physical distinction becomes the only possible basis of an erotic attraction.

    Look, this is simple. Whatever you think is the basis of an erotic relationship, ask yourself, would I look for that in a friend? If the answer is yes, then that can not possibly be the basis of an erotic relationship, otherwise you would be erotically attracted to your friend. Make sense yet?


    The physical attraction is what makes the relationship erotic rather than friendly. But that's not to say that the other person's non-physcial qualities suddenly become irrelevant in a heterosexual relationship.

    It doesn't follow from my position that people would treat each other like walking penises and vaginas, because again other qualities besides the physical remain in play. It also doesn't follow from anything I've said that men would only be able to relate to women as potential sex partners.

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  19. likely in response to the recognition of women as human beings who exist for their own purposes rather than for the gratification of others.

    Well, that's another comment from Georgina that can be teased out.

    What does it mean to exist for our own purposes?

    A traditionalist would likely think that our most important purposes are already given to us.

    These purposes are various: to develop our manhood or womanhood to its full extent; to reproduce ourselves and our tradition through fatherhood and motherhood; to live "righteously" in the sense of living according to right moral conduct; to remain open to the spiritual aspect of life, not only in terms of a church, but in our responsiveness to nature and the arts, in our capacity for love, including romantic love and love for our children and so on.

    These purposes have always been equally open to men and women.

    So what is Georgina's complaint? She seems to believe that women lived for the gratification of others whilst men lived for their own purposes.

    She's wrong. First, men's primary commitments were to their families, just as women's were. Can we really say that men tilled the fields, or worked in factories or mines or offices, because they one day decided that these were their own ideal purposes?

    Georgina does not give men sufficient credit for how men laboured throughout the centuries for the benefit of their wives and children.

    Second, when a woman becomes a wife and mother she *is* fulfilling significant purposes of her own. As discussed above, it is not the only possible purpose, but it's hard to deny that there is a bringing to fruition of womanhood in the bearing and nurturing of children.

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  20. I watched only the short version, but from that it is obvious that this woman is conspicuously out of place in this neighborhood. Looking round on the internet, I see that Anneesseswijk appears to be home to poor immigrants. A beautiful, well-dressed white woman is an anomaly in Anneesseswijk, and seeing her there people naturally wonder what on earth she is doing. They assume, using their faulty immigrant categories, that she is a prostitute, because they cannot imagine why any other type of beautiful, well-dressed, white woman would be in Anneesseswijk.

    I'm not attempting to excuse the behavior of these louts, but anyone who walks through a neighborhood where he or she appears out of place is going to attract unwanted attention. If I went to a certain part of my town, I would be hit on by prostitutes and drug-dealers. That's the only reason people like me go to that part of town.

    No doubt an attractive woman can report on cat-calls and wolf-whistles with more authority than I, but to say that American city sidewalks were ever a bedlam of "hoots and hollers" is certainly a fantasy. Sure, it happened. Sometimes it was an expression of good-natured admiration, much like cheering when some stranger makes a great shot on a public basketball court. Feminism and fear of sexual harassment charges have killed off this "cheering," and there are certainly some women who miss it. Sometimes it was vulgar, coarse, and menacing. In my experience (as a male bystander), when it was vulgar, coarse, and menacing, it almost always came from a solitary Black man or low-class white men in a group. The whites were showing off to each other, the Blacks were trying either to frighten the women or to advance a genuine solicitation. As I no longer live in a large city, I can't say what has happened to this sort of harassment. I'd guess nothing.

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  21. Hey DH? I see you are still keeping 'em on their toes and ruffling a few feathers.
    ;)

    Drop me a line. I tried emailing you, but it bounced back.

    cheers. :D

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  22. Georgina Charlotte/Doomed HarlotWednesday, 8 August 2012 at 01:08:00 GMT+10

    Ah, I will Kathy!!! I feel really terrible that I lost touch. A lot of things going on, including my husband having an illness in the early part of the year.

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  23. Georgina Charlotte/Doomed HarlotWednesday, 8 August 2012 at 01:33:00 GMT+10

    MARK SAYS:

    So what is Georgina's complaint? She seems to believe that women lived for the gratification of others whilst men lived for their own purposes.

    I didn't exactly say that. I think women, like men, have always had their own subjectivity and lived for their own purposes. But I do think women have often been VIEWED as existing primarily for others. This view is enshrined in the Genesis account of woman's creation to be a helpmeet and Paul's interpretation of this account when he said:

    "And man was not made for woman, but woman was made for man. ... for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake."

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  24. How old are you Georgina Charlotte/Doomed Harlot? Which generation are you part of?

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  25. Georgina Charlotte/ Doomed HarlotWednesday, 8 August 2012 at 06:34:00 GMT+10

    Anonymous,
    I am 41, smack in the middle of Gen X. Why do you ask?

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  26. Just checking to see which feminist wave you were part of.

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  27. Probably second wave. I'm young for the second wave but I already used the term "feminist" to describe myself by the time I was 7 and avidly watched the 70s era feminists whenever they were on TV. That said, I am sure I have some third wave elements as well.

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  28. Georgina Charlotte, are you a communist as well? Feminism is nothing more than the application of the Marxian principle of class warfare to the relations between the sexes.

    It was meant to destroy utterly what remained of the family, & has largely accomplished that objective. The imposition of a Communist dictatorship is much easier when the targeted society is composed of isolated individuals who care for no one but themselves, than when it is composed of strong families.

    It's like the old fable of the farmer giving his sons a bundle of sticks which they could not break, & then untying the bundle & handing them the sticks one by one, then they could be broken with ease.

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  29. "The physical attraction is what makes the relationship erotic rather than friendly."

    Men and women both have muscles and fat, so the so-called masculine musculature is only a relic of past where men oppressed women without access to gyms, protein shakes and synthetic androgens.

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  30. All of you seem to be missing the point: Harassing women on the street is wrong and disgusting. It doesn't matter if she's on what ever street or at whatever hour or wearing nothing at all. IT IS WRONG, shouldn't happen under ANY circumstances.

    In my book any man (no matter where he comes from) who treats women like that is a poor, ignorant, excuse for a man and should be considered nothing more that trash.

    Stop giving excuses, be respectful and start acting like REAL MEN.

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  31. Stop giving excuses, be respectful and start acting like REAL MEN.
    Tell that to the men giving you grief, not the ordinary guy.
    P.S. I've often observed that women allow the men they're really attracted to, to treat them badly ... and then the final guy she's with, gets to pay for all the sins of the previous men she enjoyed.
    What's up with that? It's probably a reason why so many marriages break up - sluts couldn't stand being with a man who had better moral fibre than them, since they were always around bad men THAT THEY CHOSE TO BE WITH.

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