Saturday, November 05, 2011

Stealing motherhood

Sorry, I couldn't resist a post on this.

Liz Jones has written another of her confessional columns for the Daily Mail. This time it's about her attempts to become a mother by stealing the sperm of her partners. She begins by reminding us of the ridiculous modern girl life script that she and too many other Western women have bought into:

...for most of my adult life, having a child was the furthest thing from my mind.

I wanted a career, freedom, a nice house and to keep my figure. As a feminist, I looked down on mumsy types.

But when I was in my late 30s, I decided that if I didn’t get pregnant soon then it might never happen. I had also reached a point in my life where I wanted to settle down with a man, and though my boyfriend at that time was wildly unsuitable, I thought that I could change him.

Yes, it's the modern girl jackpot. She wanted to be the autonomous career girl type and she spent her fertile years looking down on motherhood and dating unsuitable men. But in her late 30s, at the very, very last moment she suddenly decided it was time to settle down.

She's not exactly alone in having pursued this life course. It's part of the cultural message being promoted to Western women. For instance, there's a hit romantic comedy film out called Bridesmaids. The "heroine" of this film is part of a player guy harem; she sticks with him because she thinks he's hot. But in her late 30s she finally sees through him and starts to consider an average joe type. That's modern "romance" for you - the heroines are ageing women who get rescued at the very last moment by a decent guy.

But there was to be no such romcom ending for Liz Jones. Her "wildly unsuitable" boyfriend didn't want children. So Liz Jones took matters into her own hands:

He refused to believe I was on the Pill, and insisted we use a condom for every moment of our intimate contact.

‘I don’t trust you,’ he said, muttering something about women claiming to want a career, but underneath wanting to start a family.

I called his bluff and told him there was no way I would want a baby with him, given he didn’t earn any money. Yet the truth was, I had hatched a plan that many will doubtless find shocking.

Because he wouldn’t give me what I wanted, I decided to steal it from him. I resolved to steal his sperm from him in the middle of the night. I thought it was my right, given that he was living with me and I had bought him many, many M&S ready meals.

The ‘theft’ itself was alarmingly easy to carry out. One night, after sex, I took the used condom and, in the privacy of the bathroom, I did what I had to do. Bingo.

I don’t understand why more men aren’t wise to this risk — maybe sex addles their brain. So let me offer a warning to men wishing to avoid any chance of unwanted fatherhood: if a woman disappears to the loo immediately after sex, I suggest you find out exactly what she is up to.

As it turned out, my attempts to get pregnant by Trevor failed, and shortly afterwards he and I split up.

It would be a lot nicer, you would think, for Liz Jones to have gone about things the traditional way, i.e. learn to be attractively feminine in her early 20s, reward a family oriented man with her affections, get married and have a committed and enthusiastic husband to raise a family with together. Surely that's a better outcome than having to scheme to steal the sperm from an unwilling boyfriend.

Liz Jones did marry her next boyfriend, but again he was wildly unsuitable. He was 14 years younger and unwilling to commit to children. So she stole his sperm too but again without successfully becoming pregnant. She's now in her 50s, divorced and childless.

The moral of the story is that women should ignore the cultural messages encouraging them to endlessly delay family formation. Would you really want to end up in Liz Jones's situation? Wouldn't that be crushingly humiliating?

Men, too, need to consider the timing of family formation. Liz Jones relates in her column that,

I spoke to several men before writing this article. One, in his mid-30s, has just got engaged to a woman who is 39. He told me he is not yet thinking about starting a family, as he is self-employed and worried about the recession. They also live 45 miles apart, each in their own flat.

He told me he wants to wait until they have a house together, and for his business to become established.

I bet his fiancée will be pregnant within the year.

That man hasn't thought things through. If he really does want a family it would have been prudent to marry a younger woman. But if he is committed to marrying a 39-year-old then the time to try for a family is straight away. It's not sensible for him to say he "is not yet thinking" about family.

38 comments:

  1. It isn't that easy to get pregnant at 39, even if you're desperately trying.

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  2. I've never been in this position, so perhaps someone could enlighten me: does trying to get a 39 yr old woman pregnant entail lots of sex, each and every day? I would think that that would be healthy for any man.

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  3. She has to track her monthly cycle, and you have to have sex at the right time. More importantly, even if she does get pregnant she is likely to have a spontaneous miscarriage early in the process and you have to start trying all over again.

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  4. Feminists cannot be good mothers. Before being a mother, a woman must be feminine oriented. And also she must accept the natural sexuality. I know feminists do not like to be feminine and they do not like to accept the natural sexuality.

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  5. Ladies, stop contradicting yourselves. Because in your efforts to be slutty bimbos and devalue motherhood for careers, you cannot suddenly do a 180 and expect anyone to take you seriously. Especially the men in your lives. It's just a shame you ruin it for women who have a lick of sense.

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  6. short story why I hate feminists. My fathers mother was a feminist. She tried to abort him as a baby then told him. Among other things. My father is a messed up insufferable liberal it has caused my family so much pain and grief. It all started with his feminist mother.
    Can anyone imagine the damage and scars ideologies like Feminism have done to westerners behind the scenes?
    The damage is generations of destroyed families and societies.

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  7. anon:
    "does trying to get a 39 yr old woman pregnant entail lots of sex, each and every day? I would think that that would be healthy for any man."

    Varies hugely - some cannot get pregnant at all and there is stress, heartache and IVF attempts; others get pregant the first time they have sex without contraception. This is also true of 40+ year olds; the chance of effective infertility increases with age but the menopause is not until around 50.

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  8. "Because he wouldn’t give me what I wanted, I decided to steal it from him. I resolved to steal his sperm from him in the middle of the night. I thought it was my right, given that he was living with me and I had bought him many, many M&S ready meals."

    This woman is clearly a sociopath.

    Again: "...and I had bought him many, many M&S ready meals."

    Inverossímil, porém verídico.

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  9. "...Because he wouldn’t give me what I wanted, I decided to steal it from him.... I thought it was my right, given that he was living with me and I had bought him many, many M&S ready meals."

    This sounds a great deal like a thief's rationalization, as well as the typical feminism-inspired Modern Womyns' rationalization for getting divorced.

    'NAWALT', you say? Not anymore. TOO MANY women ARE like that, and the price a man pays for being wrong is too great to risk...like going skydiving even though 'Not All' the parachutes work correctly.

    To turn this around: if women had to take anti-HPV drugs and over 50% of the drugs were accidentally contaminated with poison, would they still take the drugs even though "Not All" the drugs were 'like that'?

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  10. Take the red pill,

    We've been through this many times, but there are better options than permanent bachelorhood. The PB option means that men miss out on the chance of being a husband and father.

    It's possible to significantly lessen the risks in your own marriage and to work to make things better for the next generation of men.

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  11. I hear the term beta male thrown around quite a lot ( I don't agree with it because it implies the vast majority of men are inferior trash)
    Heres a question why isnt there a beta female?
    There are a lot of women who are not perfect examples of a woman. They are unintelligent, vulgar, not attractive and the thing that would cancel these out being a mother and having children they refuse to do.
    There are some women are not beautiful who still have a lot of value and respect by being a good mother.
    There are women who are just beautiful that never have children.
    Then there are the ones who neither are beautiful or want children. What use are they? None. They are beta females.

    In biology females are supposed to have high value because of their neat trick of baring children. If they throw this away they have no reproductive value. Again they are beta females.

    "We've been through this many times, but there are better options than permanent bachelorhood. The PB option means that men miss out on the chance of being a husband and father."

    I agree with Mark.
    What men should do is place high value on feminine women who want to have a family with no delayed fuss. Reject women who don't want to make a family and just want to party and drink champagne till they are 40.
    If enough men demand this from women they will be playing their own game.
    Society will change overnight and for the better.

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  12. Inverossímil, porém verídico?

    Muito verdadeiro,

    triste verdade.

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  13. Anonymous misses the point. The alpha-beta dynamic applies to men vis-a-vis their attraction-mating potential in the eyes of women, because women have historically been the gate-keepers of sex. There is no “beta female” because the designation does not apply to women since the dynamic and the relationship is not the same. The view that there is such a thing as a “beta female” suggests that men and women are functionally identical. Obviously, they are not.

    On another point, I’m surprised that what the women did has not been even considered akin to rape. The fact that she can casually write about it, confess it to the world, without the slightest compunction or fear of reprisal, illustrates beyond doubt the level of concession women get in allegedly patriarchal society.

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  14. "Anonymous misses the point. The alpha-beta dynamic applies to men vis-a-vis their attraction-mating potential in the eyes of women, because women have historically been the gate-keepers of sex. There is no “beta female” because the designation does not apply to women since the dynamic and the relationship is not the same. The view that there is such a thing as a “beta female” suggests that men and women are functionally identical. Obviously, they are not."

    This entire thing does not make sense. Not all women are attractive to males. You are saying that any man would drop his pants for any woman. This is false.
    Like I said many women today do not want to create a family or have children. Their gatekeeper status is void if they do not want to participate in family making. Naturally a male will look to another female for her high value reproduction potential.
    So these ARE beta females. They are useless females. I don't really care if the term isn't professionally used either as social studies is entirely dominated by feminist thought anyway!


    Also the way people use the Alpha/beta terms reeks of the way people use terms like evolutionary psychology.
    Not succeeding beta obviously.
    Got a hot wife and loads of money Alpha obviously but oh then your wife cheats on you, you are now a beta and so on.

    Would you call an ugly drunk ladette with no desire to have children and a lack of heterosexuality anything but a sub par female? (and thus a beta female)

    And don't you dare suggest that I was implying women and men are the same through that. Terrible reply.

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  15. Roissy alpha/beta makes no sense anyway, 'Roissy alphas' (seducers) are zoological betas, seeking sex without responsibility; 'Roissy betas' who are family men with a wife and kids are small-pack leaders and are thus zoological alphas, whether or not their wife cheats on them - they are following the alpha pack-leader mating strategy.

    Some species like wolves have alpha females, these are the socially dominant females. Because females have limited mating opportunities, an alpha female typically works to ensure the success of her daughters' mating as well as her own. Human 'matriarchs' are alpha females. Being attractive to males does not make you an alpha female. I guess females who don't seek to mate would be omega females; the 'maiden aunt'.

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  16. Mark said,

    "We've been through this many times, but there are better options than permanent bachelorhood. The PB option means that men miss out on the chance of being a husband and father."

    This is quite right, we've had this discussion many times and its becoming repetitive. We all acknowledge that there are severe problems with society and attitudes to marriage and divorce and also that the men's movement is right to say that an automatic deferral to women, ie whiteknighting, will only exacerbate the problem. Aside from that kind of submission though there is still much room to operate.

    It is a little disappointing to see Roisy discussed again. I would have thought that partying as a response to a perceived disaster would be highly demoralising, not enjoyable and therefore not worth doing. What are we celebrating again? If on the other hand you're partying just because you want to and the divorce situation is merely a cover then you're not legitimate in your political opposition. I don’t believe the recreation of the morals of a degenerate aristocracy is the way to go forward.

    On the earlier point about encouraging white males to convert to Islam I would suggest that anyone who advocates that to please lead by example themselves. If you can't personally stomach the idea of adopting the religion of the alien enemy then please don't suggest it for others.

    One thing I'm a little surprised about is that there isn't a greater vocalisation of Christianity as a solution for our troubles. Christianity gives the power to overcome the sin nature in ourselves, and to deal with it in others. It gives you the psychological and spiritual support needed to face troubles and it also provides a “deep community” of others to interact with. I would strongly recommend it for everyone.

    I'd also say that Christianity is not about expecting perfection on earth, if there was no sin Christ would not have had to die. We know that there is sin on earth and it is how we deal with it that matters. There are certainly good churches today and in the absence of them we have the message itself.

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  17. "'NAWALT', you say? Not anymore. TOO MANY women ARE like that, and the price a man pays for being wrong is too great to risk..."

    Sure because we all know that crazy female columnists are just your average next door girl, and the modern mass media accurately represents real life without pushing any agendas.

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  18. You are saying that any man would drop his pants for any woman. This is false. Like I said many women today do not want to create a family or have children. Their gatekeeper status is void if they do not want to participate in family making. Naturally a male will look to another female for her high value reproduction potential.

    This is tedious. Anonymous’ believes that my view, which recognizes a trend or identifies a generalization, holds that every and all individual from a given sample will adhere to the trend or generalization. This is patently false. It is also not what Gamers or I assert.

    As an aside, I am not a Gamer. To me Game Theory is just the male complimentary reaction to latest wave feminist hedonism. It is noteworthy however that the popularity, prevalence and increasing acceptance of Game as morally neutral came after the mainstreaming of feminism.

    As for the comment above, I can only reply by saying that gate-keeper status has nothing at all to do with a woman’s intention to have a family. It has everything to do with the power of an individual who has the final and ultimate say about whether or not sexual congress, for whatever purpose, will occur between two. That individual will invariably be female. Such was the case three hundred years ago. Such is the case today.

    Yes, men are less eclectic about their sexual partners. This is common knowledge and has been confirmed by anthropological, psychological and sociological studies time and time again. It’s amazing that it needs to be reiterated here. The fact that there may be a male who is looking for a legacy does not change this one iota, nor does it alter the gate-keeper dynamic between men and women (unless he wants to rape the woman, in which case you’re right – but I don’t think that happens very often, do you?).

    Also the way people use the Alpha/beta terms reeks of the way people use terms like evolutionary psychology ... Got a hot wife and loads of money Alpha obviously but oh then your wife cheats on you, you are now a beta and so on.

    Like I said, I am not a Gamist, but I believe they would probably say that they don’t care how the word is used in other fields of study. They would probably say that Game is an attitudinal thing, has nothing to do with looks, being married or having children.

    Would you call an ugly drunk ladette with no desire to have children and a lack of heterosexuality anything but a sub par female? (and thus a beta female).

    No. I would call her a member of a dead-end demographic. Most unworthy women are alphas. Simon of London has it in a nut-shell.

    And don't you dare suggest that I was implying women and men are the same through that. Terrible reply.

    Anonymous. You are obviously a woman. Here is some advice: Stop looking at this through the prism of women’s ‘hotness’, understand that alpha-beta has nothing to do with the desire to raise a family in the eyes of Gamists, accept the truth that men are motivated (at least in the short term) by different sexual factors and drives and are indeed more prepared to ‘drop their pants’ as you put it, tone down the emotional reflexive ‘oh I’m so offended’, and who knows, you might learn something.

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  19. Replying to Anonymous:

    You are saying that any man would drop his pants for any woman. This is false. Like I said many women today do not want to create a family or have children. Their gatekeeper status is void if they do not want to participate in family making. Naturally a male will look to another female for her high value reproduction potential.

    This is tedious. Anonymous’ believes that my view, which recognizes a trend or identifies a generalization, holds that every and all individual from a given sample will adhere to the trend or generalization. This is patently false. It is also not what Gamers or I assert.

    As an aside, I am not a Gamer. To me Game Theory is just the male complimentary reaction to latest wave feminist hedonism. It is noteworthy however that the popularity, prevalence and increasing acceptance of Game as morally neutral came after the mainstreaming of feminism.

    As for the comment above, I can only reply by saying that gate-keeper status has nothing at all to do with a woman’s intention to have a family. It has everything to do with the power of an individual who has the final and ultimate say about whether or not sexual congress, for whatever purpose, will occur between two. That individual will invariably be female. Such was the case three hundred years ago. Such is the case today.

    Yes, men are less eclectic about their sexual partners. This is common knowledge and has been confirmed by anthropological, psychological and sociological studies time and time again. It’s amazing that it needs to be reiterated here. The fact that there may be a male who is looking for a legacy does not change this one iota, nor does it alter the gate-keeper dynamic between men and women (unless he wants to rape the woman, in which case you’re right – but I don’t think that happens very often, do you?).

    Also the way people use the Alpha/beta terms reeks of the way people use terms like evolutionary psychology ... Got a hot wife and loads of money Alpha obviously but oh then your wife cheats on you, you are now a beta and so on.

    Like I said, I am not a Gamist, but I believe they would probably say that they don’t care how the word is used in other fields of study. They would probably say that Game is an attitudinal thing, has nothing to do with looks, being married or having children.

    Would you call an ugly drunk ladette with no desire to have children and a lack of heterosexuality anything but a sub par female? (and thus a beta female).

    No. I would call her a member of a dead-end demographic. Most unworthy women are alphas. Simon of London has it in a nut-shell.

    And don't you dare suggest that I was implying women and men are the same through that. Terrible reply.

    Anonymous. You are obviously a woman. Here is some advice: Stop looking at this through the prism of women’s ‘hotness’, understand that alpha-beta has nothing to do with the desire to raise a family in the eyes of Gamists, accept the truth that men are motivated (at least in the short term) by different sexual factors and drives and are indeed more prepared to ‘drop their pants’ as you put it, tone down the emotional reflexive ‘oh I’m so offended’, and who knows, you might learn something.

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  20. @Kilroy said...

    You are an idiot.
    I am a man.
    I was not implying 'hotness' from a female perspective I was implying fitness in women from a male perspective.
    This is the extent of liberal societys mindmushing that you as man can not even understand that another man would value a womans attractivness highly and be blunt about it.
    Some liberal thoughts:
    Racism doesn't apply to blacks
    Evolution doesn't apply to humans
    Alpha/beta doesn't apply to women

    If the designation of beta male was applied accurately you would fit it this is because you have declared all women of equal value.
    You have put all women on a pedestal, this is whiteknighting.
    There are beta women in this world make no mistake

    Beauty isn't just appearance.
    My point was that men have a number of criteria one of them that ranks the highest is physical attractiveness then there is the potential for a woman to be a mother.

    There are 4 combinations of this woman.
    There are attractive women who do want to have children.
    As an observation I've noticed most ATTRACTIVE celebrities have children.
    There are attractive women who want no children or delay indefinately.
    There are unattractive women who want children.
    These women STILL have high value. Their unattractiveness means little. They are willing to make a family. A man invests a lot of time and resource so a reliable mother is valuable no matter her ranking out of 10.
    Then there are ugly(in more than just appearance) women who don't want children. Seemingly often feminists. These are the lowest value women.

    I've applied Alpha and Beta theory to women my whole life with great success. Women actually fit Alpha and Beta labels more easily than males do.

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  21. "You are an idiot."

    At that point I stopped reading.

    Have a good day.

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  22. "At that point I stopped reading.

    Have a good day."

    You don't think a person who assumes an anonymous poster is a woman because they rebuked them isn't an idiot?
    Very strange.

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  23. That was not the basis of my assumption. You argued and reacted like a woman. I extrapolated from the evidence you yourself produced. If you object to that, my advice is for you to (and please do forgive my stereotyping) stop thinking like a girl.

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  24. "That was not the basis of my assumption. You argued and reacted like a woman. I extrapolated from the evidence you yourself produced. If you object to that, my advice is for you to (and please do forgive my stereotyping) stop thinking like a girl."

    So you threw the first stone. You do know that it is insulting to call a man an idiot.
    ""You are an idiot."

    At that point I stopped reading.

    Have a good day."

    I repeat how dare you. How dare you call me a woman.
    I'd dearly like you to say this to my face in public. You wouldn't last a second.
    Which makes this a curious response.

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  25. Kilroy I agree with the anonymous poster. You clearly are not the sharpest tool in the shed if you are calling people who disagree with you women.

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  26. "That was not the basis of my assumption. You argued and reacted like a woman. I extrapolated from the evidence you yourself produced. If you object to that, my advice is for you to (and please do forgive my stereotyping) stop thinking like a girl."

    So we have the traditionalist movement in a nutshell. Weighed down by a lot of dumb dead weight "Kilroys".

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  27. I also agree withe the anonymous poster.

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  28. I, too, wish to add my concurrance to the anonymous poster.

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  29. Yeah, Kilroy sux. He's offensive.

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  30. I'm offended by Kilry too. He makes me feeeeeeel so bad. And for him to accuse us of reacting like women! How dare he!

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  31. It's soo good to have such a consensus of Anonymous posters, agreeing with Anonymous. Clearly we have Kilroy outnumbered and out argued! Hurah!

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  32. Kilroy you should read this! "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29"

    It was obvious the first time!

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  33. Yes, I think the only thing left to do is just surrender, and get on with the rest of one’s life.

    Thus, my last word on this thread, lol.

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  34. I sometimes wonder if these traditionalist blogs are socialist created intellectual honey pots designed to bog down oppisition to mainstream liberal thought.
    The number of comical "weekend warrior" ex-soldier types who post on them with fantasies of taking over Australia with Authoritarian military dictatorships, telling posters to harden up (chopper reed style) and calling posters women (no explanation) is just all too convenient.

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  35. ... or self righteous 'holier than thou' types that make moralistic comments without reading the things they are responding to with due diligence.

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