Sunday, July 18, 2010

France as the new liberal utopia? Maybe not.

My left-wing work colleagues seem to have dropped Sweden as their model country. They are now comparing Australia unfavourably to France. France is the country that can do no wrong.

So it's just as well for them that the Australian media has barely reported the recent riots in France. First, there was a violent demonstration by Chinese in Paris against ethnic crime in the multicultural suburbs there. And now we have rioting by hundreds of Muslim youths in Grenoble (picture below).

Grenoble is an ancient city at the foot of the French Alps, first mentioned in 43 BC. The town was visited by the Roman Emperor Gratian in the fourth century and was renamed in his honour. The most famous of French knights, Bayard ("the knight without fear and beyond reproach"), came from the region.

How did the recent riot there start? It appears that two North African men robbed a nearby casino. The police gave chase, the robbers fired on the police wounding one officer and one of the fugitives was killed in the ensuing shoot out.

That then led to rioting by hundreds of Muslim youths. Dozens of cars and shops were burnt, buses and trams were held up by gangs of youths brandishing baseball bats and bars and a service station was looted. Shots were fired at the police.

Not exactly what you'd expect in a utopia. As it happens, even the EU recognises that there is a problem in Grenoble. In a document looking at causes of Islamic radicalism in Europe, we are told,

Grenoble is presently (2007-08) the scene of a high-level and bloody mafia war involving second-generation North Africans: the field of potential violence is taken by non-political forms of radicalisation. (p.23)

And if readers are at all inclined to think of the North Africans in Grenoble as a hard done by minority, then they might like to look at this video (I'm not sure how to embed it, has some NSFW ads). It shows a street scene in Grenoble in which it is clearly the North Africans picking on the locals rather than vice versa.

Anyway, if I were a left-winger I don't think I'd be so confident about picking France as my model country. It's still the land of burning cars and no go areas. There must be a better example of social democracy in action somewhere in Europe.


On the left: a statue in Grenoble of the famous knight Bayard:

As a soldier, Bayard was considered the epitome of chivalry and one of the most skillful commanders of the age ... to his contemporaries and his successors, he was, with his romantic heroism, piety, and magnanimity, the fearless and faultless knight (le chevalier sans peur et sans reproche).


  1. Mark said,

    "There must be a better example of social democracy in action somewhere in Europe."

    I doubt it. By the way I hate the term "youths" it makes them sound almost legitimate or that this is some sort of youthful hijinks. These are terminal undesirables who belong in jail or preferably not even in the country. They have no legitimate grievances.

  2. By the way I hate the term "youths" it makes them sound almost legitimate or that this is some sort of youthful hijinks.

    Good point, Jesse. I've followed the mainstream media reports in doing this. I'll try to avoid it next time.

  3. No worries. I just saw this in the news right now. Its about a Liberal candidate, woman, who was seriously punched in the face over her boat people policy.

    This is how the left chose to conduct their politics at times. I say that should get it back double.

  4. Even worse than when they call them "youths" is when they call them "students". What do they study, what school do they attend? Who knows! This is never stated - nor is the fact that they could even be in their 30s and 40s.

    But of course the Leftist media will always use "youths" or "students" rather than "Leftist stormtroopers", which is what they are. Leftist political violence is always excused or ignored. Tsk, tsk, boys will be boys.

  5. "But of course the Leftist media will always use "youths" or "students" rather than "Leftist stormtroopers", which is what they are. Leftist political violence is always excused or ignored. Tsk, tsk, boys will be boys."

    That's funny.

    They seem remarkably emboldened in their use of violence. Its not just them though its the same with all the dirtbag elements of society. Saying, "Excuse me do you mind keeping it down?" to a group on the back of the bus is a virtual invitation for violence.

    I have to say I was relieved when Rudd got into power and the Iraq war went off the agenda. I was quite sure that sooner or latter I was going to clobber an anti war protestor and get arrested.

  6. Even in France they are in denial. You speak with the locals and in one breath they'll assert there's no problem - it's all being blown out of proportion by the media - and in the next tell you you mustn't take the Metro to Saint Denis because it's not safe.

    I'm not surprised the lefties have adopted France. This is a country where you must work forty years full-time if you want to be eligible for an old-age pension, which of course forces women to abandon their children for work. If you are foolish or stubborn enough to rely on your husband's income, the two of you will have only a single pension to live off in your old age and should he die only half that.

    Of course, this does have serious implications for immigrants (who often arrive too old to be able to fulfil this criterion) and anyone who can't maintain full-time employment for forty years. I think it's clear France shouldn't have such massive numbers of immigrants, and there is no justification for their violence, but some of them do have legitimate grievances.

  7. Its definitely also a Muslim thing. Cities in the south, such as Marseilles, have had a substantial Muslim Algerian population for a long time and have had large parts of their cities as no go areas.

  8. I am not seeking to defend France's recent governmental (and in particular immigration-related) idiocies.

    But in France's defence it should be mentioned that the quality and courage of the country's genuinely conservative print media (RIVAROL, LE SPECTACLE DU MONDE, MONDE ET VIE etc) leave for dead anything in Britain, let alone Australia. These publications make QUADRANT, IPA REVIEW, and STANDPOINT look like the genteel nihilistic tosh that they mostly are. While they are still allowed to last, then objectively France's cultural and intellectual situation will be less dire than our own.

  9. I don't read these papers V. Walter but France has oscillated between socialist left wing parties to socialist right wing parties for decades now. So where's the conservativism in France?

  10. I've come to recognize "youths" as code for non-whites. But maybe I'm just cynical. ;)

  11. Mark, I hail from France, where I still live, and I can tell you there is no worse dystopian nation throughout the Western world, with the possible exceptions of Belgium, Sweden and the Netherlands. These people, for want of a better word, have been given full rein to do what they please, they may rob, murder, kill, shoot and rape, and it will always be someone's else fault. If a girl, almost invariably a native, is raped, it is because she did not show proper respect to the maedieval Islam of those louts, or was not covered by some ugly veil. If a "youth" (synonymous with "scum" or "lout" in post-modern liberal France) is shot while being chased by the police, the latter are responsible for his death, not the opposite. I can assure you France is arguably far worse than any other Western country but the three aforementioned ones. By contrast, Australia is quite a haven. Last week, entire bands of Gypsies turned out of thin air, and plundered a village, burning down houses and firing at the police who were utterly dumbfounded and responded by further salves after being told they were allowed to use their weapons at long last. This country is rapidly descending into anarchy and chaos, reaping the rewards of decades of multi-culti. It is true most of our political parties are socialist in the wider sense of the word in that they were all fed to the table of dirigisme, however, a true national resistance exists, and French-style conservatism is best embodied by two men such as Philippe de Villiers (of the Mouvement pour la France) and Jean-Marie Le Pen (National Front). I wish them well, and hope they shall one day succeed at the polling booth. As for Australia, you do have remnants of conservatism, in spite of his numerous defects, I would swap Tony Abbott for Nicolas Sarkozy anytime. I found out, when I last travelled to Australia, the Australian people are much sanguine about immigration and Islam (which is precisely what I like about you; you are a much blunter people, and do not like to beat around the bush), few would dare speak out in such a fashion in France, lest the PC brigades should place them into custody. Trust me, although the whole Western world is struggling with a particularly resilient bout of liberalism, Australia is definitely in less advanced a state of decay than any other Western nation, the United States notwithstanding.

  12. Southern Cross, thanks for a perspective from France itself.

    (Rob, your comment could be read in a way that I'm not sure you intended.)

  13. I went to Grenoble in 1988 and visited a local family. Lovely town, lovely people. It'll never be the same. Such a shame, really.

    Where do we go fromhere? What is the next stage after liberlaism? For Europe I guess Islam. But for the rest of the West, is it just poverty?

  14. So Sarkosy has done nothing on immigration? I know he was partially elected on that platform. Yes I'm aware of Le Pen's movement, they get a strong vote.

  15. I've come to recognize "youths" as code for non-whites.

    Whites are "hooligans" or "students".

    I've been to France a lot, and spent much time there. The clock is ticking on that one, unfortunately. Even Germany has better chances. America and Australia still have good chances, but I think they're mostly squandering them.

    I also wonder about what comes next. We live in interesting times. It's very odd to watch countries self-destructing like that.

  16. Yes, Jesse_7, not only Sarkozy has done nothing to alleviate the issue, but he has as good as made clear he will not do anything, and has indeed, more than once, paid a visit to various Muslim organisations and praised their 'culture', extolling Arabic as the language of the future. Considering the demographic trends and the fact France is already 15 % Muslim at the very least, he may be right. Fortunately, not everyone is going to bow to that kind of 'future', Le Pen's share of the electorate has been increasing for two years after the 2009 'EU' election. I contributed to that revival, and intend to do so again in the foreseeable future if no better conservative alternative is on offer by then, although I am definitely pessimistic about France's odds. I have a strong fondness for Australia, and I would not like that country to go under as we do, fight for your country, Australia, the United States and a handful of other Western nations can still make it, I can see no peaceful future for France; the wolf is already among the flock, the fox is ready to devour the dastardly hens and the shepherds are sitting on a heap of dung, watching the scene.

    Liesel, I would favour poverty over Islam a hundred times over, I would rather be indigent than live under Islamic rule, and see white women bound in slavery, beaten into subservience by a bunch of lewd so-called clerics. But such is not Australia's future, even though Kevin Rudd was given free rein to mess things up, and spend billions of dollars, your debt is almost non existent by Western standards (expected to peak at 6 % of GDP, gross figures notwithstanding), your economy is incredibly resilient, the debt will be paid off within a decade, and you will not owe anybody. Besides, even though your present levels of immigration, mostly Chinese, are worrying, I would rather have Chinese migrants Muslims on these shores, although it would be better not to have migrants at all (or the bare minimum demanded by economic conditions, and of assimilable backgrounds).

    Alte, it is truly bewildering to witness such self-hatred and bipolar disorders amid our Western societies. Why do these liberal elites hate us to the extent they want to bury our civilisation deep under thick layers of renewed primitivism? I, for one, think we are at a crucial juncture in our history, and need to strike back before it is too late, we have much to lose: our entire civilisation and ways of life. At least, it is a comfort to hear from fellow conservative-minded patriots from other Western nations, we must stick together if we are to prevail.

  17. I don't think they do hate conservatives, actually. I think they simply view the falling birth rate and realize that the "gig is up": import more foreigners or make more babies. The former idea seems more palatable, and they are using rhetoric to convince the public of it.

    Making more babies would require a return to patriarchy. That's the only proven way to reach sufficient reproductive levels. They'd rather die out than go that route.

  18. Thanks for your comments Southern Cross and keep it up,

    It seems bizarre to me because France is in so many respects very culturally secure and arrogant. That they would want to ruin their country like this. I know the French were the most confident colonisers and truly believed they could make Frenchmen out of anyone. Maybe they think they can "convert" all these people to a broader French multiculturalism so to speak?

    In Australia immigration from Muslim countries is the most controversial form of immigration.

  19. Southern Cross I'm from the Netherlands and I don't agree with your statement!

    Outside Amsterdam life isn't that bad. We aren't as socialist or politically correct, we still have religion in our public life. We have government-sponsored Christian schools, 3 Christian parties and Geert Wilders:)

    Also we have less mothers working.
    I have been to Liege last year and here in Holland I have never seen anything equal to it.
    So yes, I agree about Belgium but we aren't quite as far yet.

  20. It's totally off-topic, but remember how we were discussing the bizarre rise in home prices over the past 50 years. The Mises blog pointed out that, governments collect property taxes, so they have an incentive to keep property value appraisals as high as possible.

    We had noted this on our own house. We bought for $280k and our neighbors homes (in better condition) are selling for around $220k. But the appraisal is for $260k.

    I know you Aussies have property taxes, as well. If you think about it, it's a form of collective ownership, where you pay a yearly fee for living on your own property. The government can force you out if you can't afford the payment. You're basically renting your property from the government, even if you hold the title.

    The older woman who had this house before us was forced out because she couldn't afford the increase in taxes, despite owing no debt on the house. That's going to hit an increasing number of retirees, I think. Property taxes will steadily increase, but their income won't.

  21. I wouldn't put that much hope in Le Pen if I were a French conservative. His daughter leads the party now, and she has shown to be a mere liberal with an anti-immigration bent. The most telling fact of this is that she is a supporter of abortion, probably linking that barbaric practice with the "French way of life".

    If this is the "Resistance", then France is truly doomed.

  22. Jonathan Wolfe said,

    "His daughter leads the party now, and she has shown to be a mere liberal with an anti-immigration bent."

    I hate to sound awful but that doesn't worry me. Immigration is the cruical issue in my opinion and any ally on that front is a good one.

  23. Mark, I probably did intend my comments to sound the way they did. Are you trying to protect me by not publishing them? If so, go ahead.

  24. Jonathan, unfortunately, we have nothing better than Le Pen, there is simply no-one else. Of course, I do not think of the National Front as a beacon of conservatism, however, I think a conservative revival will be on the cards shortly, and then we might have a better alternative. Besides, Le Pen's daughter has is not to be given a free ride, and might not make it in the upcoming leadership contest, her rival, Bruno Gollnisch is way more conservative than she is and has hitherto attracted more proponents, and objects to abortion as a principled Roman Catholic. Nonetheless, I agree with Jesse; there must be an anti-colonisation vote, then we will talk about other less important, albeit hefty, issues.

    I may be wrong about the Netherlands, but I was indeed thinking of Amsterdam and Rotterdam (where the incumbent mayor is a Muslim from Morrocan extraction, and a fierce liberal at that, unless I am mistaken) when I mentioned the Netherlands being worse off than France. The Netherlands has a much stronger economy, far less unemployment, and a nascent conservative bent, Geert Wilders is clearly ascending, which fills me with joy, for I wish the Netherlands well in their own struggle against Islam and am deeply admiring of the Dutch history and character. I meant no offense, and then my statements may be wrong, for all I know. However, a majority of babies will be born to Muslim families by 2012 in the Netherlands, and I definitely reckon the future is indeed bleak, should such estimates prove true in two years' time. The Netherlands puts up with drugs and homosexuality far more easily than most Western nations. I think these factors influenced my words. Then, again, I may be wrong, I have never lived in the Netherlands.

    As for Australia, Muslim immigration is preoccupying but nowhere near European intakes. You have much more prosperous times ahead, although you ought not to be complacent either, political correctness being as much a bane in Australia as it is throughout the Western world.

  25. "As for Australia, Muslim immigration is preoccupying but nowhere near European intakes. You have much more prosperous times ahead, although you ought not to be complacent either, political correctness being as much a bane in Australia as it is throughout the Western world."

    A lot of us across the Tasman though, can't understand what on earth Australia is doing with its immigration policy. Australia, like Canada is riding high on a mineral-fueled economic boom, which its deluded elites seems to think is coming from immigration, when in fact immigration is mearly re-distributing this resource wealth (which could soon dry up)away from native Australians.

    Australia, doesn't really need immigrants at all, its not as if Australia has significant out-migration like New Zealand does, its skilled workers aren't going anywhere.

    Why doesn't Australia just save and invest the wealth and Australia will have plenty of wealth to pay for its aging population.

  26. The problem with the Front National isn't so much its support for liberal barbarism such as abortion, or even its economic protectionism. Its biggest weakness is the tendency for many of its members to engage in Jew-baiting. Also, its leader's anti-Americanism.

    It's interesting that while Le Pen is supposed to be a patriot standing up to the Islamic invasion, he has stated that Islam is perfectly compatible with the French values and way of life. Let's not forget he also nominated a Maghrebin Musulman to office in the 1950s, supported Iran in the recent past, and was chummy with assorted Third World trash like Dieudonné. His ego is so big that he sabotages his party by questioning the Shoah and alienating members (i.e. Bruno Mégret) who don't follow the party line.

    Marine should not be party leader because she is a lawyer -- that bloodsucking class has had the run of Western government for some time and done a lousy job of it. She is also a woman, and women don't belong in politics. But in her defense, she has at least condemned antisemitism.

    Gollnisch is also questionable leadership material. He is a lawyer (strike one), an antisemite (strike two), and a bad example to his party and nation by being married to a Japanese woman (strike three). I like the Japanese, but each people need to stick to their own kind if they want to survive.

    V. Walter: I'm not sure Rivarol belongs on your list of French conservative media. They have been hauled into court a few times for Holocaust denial. I think this is reprehensible, of course, as free speech is a sacred right, but they should know better. Both Rivarol and the FN leadership are representative of most of the European right, good and bad.

    Until Europe gets over its Jew obsession it will not progress to defeating its enemies. Europeans must learn to walk the fine line of calling Jewish leftists on their subversive behavior without impugning all Jews; to support Israel without supporting mass Third World immigration, neoconservative sentimentalism and métissage.

  27. Monsieur Calguès,

    The problem I think is that without these sorts of right parties immigration isn't really called out. They're the only ones who have the guts to do it. The right liberals are very reluctant and the left love it. Then you look at the parties, eg the BNP, and they have a history of anti-semitism and holocaust denial. So what are you going to do? Join up with the neo-Nazis in order to get sensible policies like immigration reduction implemented?

    The other allegation, often raised by the left, is that these parties aren't actually all that interested in reducing immigration but use it as an issue to get votes.

  28. Jesse,

    The BNP's past is its past. They've made a sincere attempt to purge the party of the old Tyndall crowd. They even have a Jewish councillor or two in the party! I don't think it particularly matters if a few party members harbor some doubts about the scale of the Holocaust, or some such, as long as they keep their mouths shut in public. The problem is that there is always one loose cannon (some would say a leftist plant) who cannot refrain from speaking up. The antisemitic right do have a point when they complain that the Jewish left have turned Holocaust guilt into a cottage industry, an instrument with which to bash whites, most of whom have not even the most tangential connection to this event. It's fine to tell perpetually aggrieved Jews to shut their traps because this event is long in the past, it was the doing of only a small percentage of white goy, and we have done enough penance for it. I don't take issue with the right of Jews to hold memorial services, but as an instrument of blackmail, the Shoah is well past its expiry date. I just wish all white people would be smart enough to realize that challenging the historical accuracy of the Holocaust is a losing proposition.

    Now don't misunderstand, the BNP has its faults. I do find their economic policy too populist/socialist, but elsewhere they are right most of the time. What other "far right" party leader would have the guts to come out and publicly admit his party is opposed to miscegenation? In a sane world no decent person would object to Nick Griffin's objection to genocide (which is really what miscegenation amounts to). You're right that some parties just use immigration on the stump, however I don't feel the BNP is one of them.

    The UKIP is another matter. They occasionally make noises about immigration but aside from a few members they don't seem to have the stomach to oppose the ongoing race replacement of Poms. They are right on EU withdrawal (as is the BNP) and economics. If you could blend the UKIP's economic policy with the BNP's social and immigration policies you would have an ideal party. Unfortunately the one party seems to draw disaffected working class Labour voters while the other draws disaffected toffs from the Tories. Given the class division in the UK it seems unlikely that the two factions will make common cause in defense of their shared racial interests.

    There are a few good parties on the continent that are implicitly if not openly racially aware without falling for Third Reich nostalgia. Maybe the VB, the Lega Nord and a handful of others. Still, the marxist establishment has so effectively dictated the terms of debate that it has for all intents and purposes removed the possibility of Europeans saving their genetic heritage in the political arena. It will probably have to wait until the Eurabian civil war begins. To this end I think the oncoming economic collapse in Western Europe would be a welcome spark to light the flame of a European war of liberation. When it is over I would hope to see mass prosecutions against all mainstream European politicians for attempted genocide.

  29. I do agree that Le Pen is not the answer. I've heard that he tends to make 'shock statements' without really thinking how those statements affect his movement.

    I'm the person Mark censors a lot and even I don't deny the Holocaust (my grandfathers brother was in a concentration camp and showed me his number tattooed on his arm) or the right for Israel to exist and protect itself (within reason---which tends to be where the anti-semitism catcalls originate from).

    One thing that I have greatly admired about Nick Griffin is his statement "Loving ones own does not requiring hating others" I think that's a really healthy motto.

    Also, there aren't any Neo-Nazis in the world. Sorry. They don't exist except for the National Socialist Reunion Band funded by the FBI/CIA. As long as you don't deny the holocaust or want to nuke Israel like some Muslims do, I believe that bringing up legitimate concerns about spheres of influence does not make you a Nazi.

    My mom just came back from France (Paris and the surrounding areas) and she loved it and didn't see anything wrong. But my mom's a pretty hard-core liberal soooo...tough to tell what the truth is.

    I remember a few years ago I had such high hopes for Sarkozy...then he gave this metisse (race-mixing) speech and I freaked out! So disturbing!

    I'm actually going through a positive mood cycle on the future. I have a lot of friends who aren't Christian or really hard core Consevative...but they are all leading their lives as if they were...whether they know it or not....getting married, having children, building a future.....People who have Western Civilization (including Christianity) in their hearts. I know a lot of those types and I think that's where our true salvation lies. So with that happy thought I will end this post :)

  30. This is where I differ from many here. I don't think there is going to be a civil war and I don't think there will be a financial collapse. Well there will be a financial collapse, but not one that leads to a world wide meltdown and revolts. The financial collapse will be a giant transfer of funds from whites to certain other people (401K plan confiscations, dollar/euro fluctuations etc etc)

    You have to remember...there are two sides to every trade. Goldman Sachs, and the Fed are always on the right side of the trade. Repeat it again..."There are Two Sides to Every Trade" If the market crashes the banks only become richer with your 401K plans devastated. Talk about a transfer of wealth.

    I think what will happen is whites will congregate in certain areas of the US. They will ascribe to the liberal idealogies, and use said idealogies such as 'environmentalism' to protect the little they have left.

    I have no idea what will happen to poor whites. I believe that poor whites will self-segregate as well, and the ones who do not will interracially marry themselves out of existence (already happening bigtime in california).

    In my own life I see a northern migration of whites to Seattle, the northwest, Alberta Canada (mining areas with lots of trade jobs) etc etc.

    The US will be ruled by a non-whites and the few whites who remain 'in control' of journalism and the media and such and such will be ...well I'll get censored if I finish that sentence...I'll say New Yorkers :)

    Whites will be pushed out of Electrical Engineering, Computer Science type jobs as Asian/Indian Technocrats take over....BUT...there is a good thing that I already see happening....Asians aren't innovators so they take over what has already been innovative male white friends have all gotten jobs at small all-white uber-private (less than 10 employees) firms in robotics and nanotechnology.

    Taxes will be high as white middle class give a chunk of their wealth to keep the minorities from killing them. (Remember the upper-class can get out of paying taxes quite easily...stock market rules...two sides to every trade...Hiding money in the Bahamas, Nassau with dual citizenship etc etc)

    Inheritance Taxes will ensure that rich innovative whites who want to keep their US citizenship will not be able to build up enough inter generational wealth to be any threat to the existing elite.

    (Guess which country doesn't have any Inheritance Taxes? Sorry That will Get me censored too. Lots of dual citizenship from that country too HA!)

    I already tried to discuss the whole 'middle class whites not getting into Private Colleges' previously, but for those that don't remember Pat Buchanan wrote an article discussing those same arguments and links. So whites will not have any leadership roles in government, since they have been expunged from private universities.

  31. I think the secret to surviving the new world order is to a) get your kids multiple citizenships b) do not put your money in any type of government controlled long-term account c) learn about the stock market as long-term investing is no longer viable d) make sure your kids know Russian :) (I just like Vladimir Putin) d) DON'T intermarry (or if you disagree with me please do) e) Have multiple children and this sounds sick but have multiple children because you may lose one to interracial marriage so if you have 1 that marries out you get 2 who don't you won't feel so bad about it

    Yeah that's all I have for the moment..... clue....but I doubt anything will happen as far as civil war till 2100, unless some unforseen trigger affects Britain.

    Also, if you want to build up intergenerational wealth now is the time to start looking at converting citizenships to countries that have no inheritance tax or burying gold in your yard or something :) hehehe

  32. One other thing that I was thinking about

    Why aren't we top donors? Have you noticed that conservatives tend to keep their money? Like why don't we have Fancy Galas and Dinner Parties in which we blackmail our friends into writing 1K checks for politicians? Then we could blackmail the politicians into doing our bidding like other certain people do.

    Seriously....Why aren't we throwing Galas and Hosting and raising money?

    It's about time we pro-white people start getting in on the blackmail racketeering Fancy Gala Hosting Fundraising Charity Ball Blackmail Racket if you ask me :) Just a thought....

    We should establish entire 'sovereign wealth funds' in which the yearly proceeds from that fund goes into blackmailing politicians. That's what the SPLC does (they have like 500 million in 'assets' that just accrue interest year and year making them more and more powerful and untouchable)

    It's about time us Pro-Whities start playing the Finance Game too.

    We built Wall Street time to take it back.

  33. Ok one last comment...

    One of the reasons why I'm always so hell bent on trying to get certain points across to you people about other groups is that if you admit "ok these people do weild an enormous amount of power over politics" then you can then ask yourself "Why?" then next comes "How?" and then the next question comes "How do we copy them and do it better?"

    That's why its important to be open-minded to certain theories about spheres of influence of groups. So you can learn from them, copy them, and use the same tactics to save yourself.

  34. Monsieur Calguès,

    I take your point but Nick Griffin is not some fringe member he's their leader. I saw him on the BBC "coming out" program and he said that he changed his mind on the existence of the holocaust by seeing transcripts of British wire tappers from WWII. That was a pathetic explanation and was immediately shot down by the panel.

    Also don't forgot the holocaust isn't primarily pushed by the Jews but by the left. Its there frontal attack against racial politics.

  35. Random thought in the middle of the night...Tony Abbott should shake things up and be like "Ok ya'll want a mining tax....then lets get a mining tax where all the profits go to a public funded election campaign reform thingie" and then he could team up with the Greens and get the leftie vote :)

    Sure it would hurt my pet industry, buttt in the long run having a publicly funded campaign thing would protect Ozzies from whats happened in the US.

    Random thought of the night :)

  36. The BNP is seen as evil by a large chunk of the people it tries to get support from, mainly because an ex-Nazi party [the majority were probably still sympathetic to nazidom in 2003] is so insanely easy for the media to slander.

    True traditionalist resistance has to come from entry-ism into existing groups and think tanks, hopefully combined with some local grass-roots action.

    Seriously people, this is how the extreme left managed it's "long march" it is time to stop trying to excuse ex-Nazis who will never be seen as legitimate by the communities they try to support.

    trying to get into a political party would probably be too hard, its the smaller groups with less members which could prove the richest pickings.

  37. Southern Cross, I didn't take any offence:)

    I personally don't believe that the majority of babies in Holland will be born to muslims in 2 years.

    Muslims whom I personally know all limit the amount of their children to 1-2 (they are Turkish).

    On the other hand, we have a Christian minority which has on average 4-6 children per family.

    Dutch are liberal on social issues, due to the fact that many aren't Christians, but believe me, there are few outside left-wing types who are liberal on immigration.

    And even with social issues, a lot of liberal laws were the result of strange coalition combinations between right wing/christian and left parties. They were a result of a compromise more or less.

    At the moment our politics is a mess and I'm not sure of the direction this country will go, as we still aren't able to form a government after the recent election.

  38. I don't think there is going to be a civil war and I don't think there will be a financial collapse...

    The scenario you painted assumes that non-white-on-white violence will continue to be kept at "acceptable" levels amidst a massive demographic shift. It will not be. Anti-white rhetoric is accepted at every level of society, and it is accepted with government sanction. A scenario in which this rhetoric is present and which whites are allowed to be slowly and peacefully phased out is highly unlikely, to say the least.

    I agree that whites will congregate to certain parts of the country, away from either coast (in fact this is already happening to some extent). But the main culprit behind white flight is not some economic factor, but violent crime. The people trekking into the interior will be the victims of this violence themselves or once-removed from it. Eventually there will be no one left to run to and whites will either fight or be destroyed, and by this time they will be well acquainted with what is in store for them should lose.

    Besides, it is the high standard of living that sustains liberalism. You agree that an economic crash is likely, but any crash must cause the standard of living to drop dramatically. At that point the fanciful abstracts that we contend with today (Diversity is Strength) will have been cast aside in favor of tooth-and-nail survival.

  39. Muslims whom I personally know all limit the amount of their children to 1-2 (they are Turkish).
    On the other hand, we have a Christian minority which has on average 4-6 children per family.

    We see the same thing in America and in Germany. In both of those countries, there is no statistical connection between birth rate and Islam. The connection is between birth rate and religiosity. Secular Turks have the same birth rate as secular Germans, for instance. Devout Christians and devout Muslims also have similar birth rates.

    There is also a connection between recent immigration and birth rates, but it disappears within a generation. So closing the borders is sufficient. Devout Christians are a substantially larger group than devout Muslims, but the impact of their existence is generally ignored when doing demographic estimates because they are lumped in with all other self-identified Christians. The future of Europe belongs to the religious, but it will probably be Christians, not Muslims.

    The problem is that Islam has a higher "retention rate" than Christianity, becuase of their willingness to self-segregate. Most Christians are dispersed among the general populations, and are therefore unduly influenced by popular culture. America has a better chance, because of homeschooling and the greater mobility of it's citizens. It's easier for American Christian parents to largely avoid outside influences upon their children.

    The main problem though, is that Europe (and perhaps North America) will decline under the burden of debt they've accumulated, and will further acquire, to care for their growing number of elderly and unproductive residents. Which is why it is -- even from a financial standpoint -- pure madness to import large quanitities of poor foreigners. Unlike the native poor, or wealthier immigrants, the foreign poor displace native workers, and repatriate a large portion of their income. That is money that is not flowing back into the economy, and not adding to sale, property, or most other tax receipts. They are a substantial financial drain on a system that is already rapidly going backrupt.

    Why do you think the Mexican government (and now Costa Rica, and some other Latin American countries) is attempting to sue Arizona? If they truly close the border, not only will Mexico and Co. have to take back the people they never wanted in the first place, they lose all of the repatriation money. That was $19 billion from Mexicans alone last year (down from $23 billion the year before, due to the weakening economy).

    Follow the money.


    Interesting article.

  41. Someone mentioned to me yesterday about Mexico suing Arizona but I thought it was a joke...Guess not!

    Van Wiljk,

    An economic crash will occur but it will be a massive transfer of wealth...not an all out great depression scenario.

    My real life my gf was all upset this weekend cuz she and her husband are engineers, hard working, highly educated people and they are conservative. But her brother in law/sister in law are Hard Core White Obama Loving Treasonous Liberals. They were in government for many years and they evidently made some pretty fancy connections...cuz evidently the brother in law (30 years old) got a 6 figure job with some type of finance retirement private company. And my friend was like "What have I done wrong in my life???" and I'm like "Your not being rewarded for being a sell-out"

    We have a white elite that basically cannibalizes lower/middle class whites. They pledge allegiance to the "New York" elite and are rewarded heavily. I don't think this will stop, and there is plenty of historical precedent for this type of behavior by looking at European history.

    I think non-whites will threaten low-level violence towards whites to keep the TaxMan Induced Welfare Checks flowing but I don't think non-whites will actually start a mass campaign of violence...unless the white elite triggers them to do it.

    I'm actually starting to shift now--especially this week with the whole Tea Party outing over the racism thing.

    If you do anything that can even hint at being pro-white your going to get trashed.

    So maybe the uber-lefties have got something going...As long as Australia is still majority white the Greens and uber-lefties could pass a lot of laws that could ensure a lack of 'unfair takeover' by certain ethnic groups of the political system (so that politicians never have to grovel to certain donors cough cough). Public Campaign funds is what I'm on right now...

    Money can help buy the media and brainwash people, but still it can't control the entire vote. BUT More Importantly, money can control which candidates even make it to being voted on...So people end up voting for candidates like McCain and Obama....both are bad....

    Environmentalism laws would be a good thing to harp on to get immigration stopped etc etc. (It hasn't worked in the US but maybe Australia??)

    Some uber-leftist ideas can be retooled to benefit us and you would not be charged with racism.

    I have another example regarding princeton and trudie pert but I'll get in trouble hehehe lol

  42. Someone mentioned to me yesterday about Mexico suing Arizona but I thought it was a joke

    Nope. It's serious.

    An economic crash will occur but it will be a massive transfer of wealth...not an all out great depression scenario.

    I'm not sure what you meant with this. In America, at least, the transfer of wealth is already behind us. From here on, overall wealth and prosperity will simply decline across-the-board. We've already been through the inflationary period and are now in a deflationary period.

    This month energy and grocery food started falling in price. We're already in a depression, and it looks like it's going to be a Great one. The politicians on both sides cannot admit that it's as bad as it is because consumer confidence is the only thing holding up what is left of our economy. If people freak out and stop shopping on credit, things will disintegrate rapidly.

    Population growth has outstripped both job growth and GDP for years now, and all appearance of increasing prosperity has been financed through debt. The gig is up, the money is out. We just haven't noticed because the government is pouring so much money into the public sector.

    The Tea Partiers are absolutely right, but they're about 20 years too late. The changes needed to turn things around now will be so draconian that even they won't be able to stomach them. I still support them, though, because at least they are bringing attention to the problem. That's more than anyone else is doing. Most of the black people I know do think that some of the Tea Partiers are racist, but an increasing number of them don't care. Why do you think the NAACP made that announcement, in the first place? What the Tea Partiers are saying about the government and the economy is simply true, and black people are hurting more than any others.

    So... what's next? It's getting interesting out there.

  43. Ok Ozcon time to switch on. The Australian press has been chokka block with "Little" or "Big" Australia references in relation to the election. Its time we had a post on this.

  44. Alte, Oh I'm just thinking of draconian things like 401K plan raids (they could easily pass a law making it so that you can only take out so much a month or something along those lines) when I mean transfer of wealth...there's tons of ways to steal more from the public if you have a creative mind! :) :)

    Yeah it will be interesting.........and I want to here about Big and Little Australia

  45. Stealing 401(k)? They're already working on that.

  46. "There must be a better example of social democracy in action somewhere in Europe."

    I object to the term "social democracy" being used to describe the cultural policies of the past generation or two. Social democracy refers to the public statist sector taking over the function of income distribution, infrastructure investment and community service provision from the private capitalist sector. With a progressive bias flowing from democratic preference.

    Cultural liberalism post-dated social democracy by almost a century. It relates to the differentiation of individual autonomies, versus the integration of institutional authority.

    Totally different issues.

  47. Are you sure that's the case Jack?

    These left wing countries are strongly communitarian. Their ideal is the little university village, neat, orderly, racially diverse, communitarian. We talk about individual autonomies but I'm not sure how far that applies to the left except perhaps on a more abstract ideological or theoretical basis.

  48. ""We talk about individual autonomies but I'm not sure how far that applies to the left except perhaps on a more abstract ideological or theoretical basis.""

    The left sees the only way to achieve autonomy is through communalism.

    The theory states that since you can only be truly autonomous if everyone has the same range of choices in life. Therefore you need a big government to cut down all the tall poppies and [in theory] build up the "oppressed".

    But if people make choices they can win or lose, so the state must either stop people from making those choices that cause them to "lose" [anti-smoking campaigns, high Junk food and booze taxes] or "win" [luxury taxes, progressive taxtaion system].

    So in order to theoretically increase choice their ideology and worldview leads them to, in actual real life, restrict choice.

    This explains how they can champion autonomy and collectivism at the same time.

    Makes about as much sense as they normally do.

  49. Jesse's paragraph just perfectly described that sick cult leader down in South America.. Jonestown? Jim Jones?


    The biggest difference between Lefties and Righties are Lefties NEVER turn against those to the left of them (they protect, excuse, and spin). But the Right will happily turn on people to the right of them (abbott versus hanson back in the late 90s), it's almost safer to be on the left so you don't get trampled on by your own people! Conservatives love to cannabilize anyone who is more extreme (extreme or courageous?)then the establishment:)

    This whole agricultural worker getting her job back business is just so ironic (I haven't watched the video so maybe she deserves the benefit of the doubt, but then Williams the tea party guy deserved the benefit as well)

  50. James said,

    "This explains how they can champion autonomy and collectivism at the same time."

    Interesting. But is it really autonomy that the left wants or just communitarianism? One thing about the left is that they're incredibly inane. Their range of topics for discussion are tedious, their activities are boring beyond belief. Everything about them seems to be about non offensiveness and getting along with everyone. They're like a profalactive on a profalactive. Autonomy does seem to imply a bit more of a spark than that.

  51. This is awesome,

    Peter Brent a writer for The Australian on the Mumble blog has written:

    "Having high levels of immigration is, like recent decades’ economic reforms such as deregulation, privatisation and lowering of tariffs, something both political parties agree on but the majority of voters don’t (at least at the time).

    You might call it a technocratic consensus. It’s not a democratic one."

    This was used as a statement in support of high immigration. The argument is that people "say" they don't want certain things, eg high immigration, but it doesn't actually affect their vote, ie Hanson didn't get that many votes, so you're better off ignoring their opinion.

    If they’re resorting to these kinds of arguments they’re starting to sweat.

  52. People on the right are much more dogmatic, so it's more difficult for us to compromise our principles. For people on the left, it's all about winning.

    I haven't watched the video so maybe she deserves the benefit of the doubt

    She deserves it. They cut out the rest of the story where she "does the right thing", in the end. So, there's now an investigation into why someone put a cropped video on the Net. Someone, somewhere has it in for her, so things might get interesting. It seems she'd been causing trouble for her employer already, so that might throw up some fascinating tidbits soon.

  53. Jesse 7 on Thursday, 22 July 2010 11:50:00 AM AEST said:
    Are you sure that's the case Jack?

    These left wing countries are strongly communitarian. Their ideal is the little university village, neat, orderly, racially diverse, communitarian. We talk about individual autonomies but I'm not sure how far that applies to the left except perhaps on a more abstract ideological or theoretical basis.
    Forgive me for going all conceptual but I find much dispute over political theory needlessly muddled by conceptual confusion. I have made it my personal mission to set this to rights.

    I see society as having two spatial (and one temporal) dimensions:

    - social stratification: Right-wing or Left-wing  (vertical equity within an agency)


    - civil association: liberalism or "corporalism"  (horizontal propriety between agencies)

    I have covered this issue on other blogs, at  Quiggin on 13 MAR 2009:

    On the social stratification axis:

    - Left-wing: progressively empowering the lower-status, eg workers, coloreds, females, gays, heathens

    Right-wing: regressively establishing the higher-status, eg bosses, whites, males, straights, Christians

    On the civil association axis:

    liberal: encouraging differentiation of individual autonomies eg free-enterprise, multi-cults, sub-cults, aliens, wild-catters, scabs

    – “corporal”: enforcing integration under institutional authority, traditionally flag, faith and family, also UN, EU-25, PRC, Microsof

    Obviously this quad of concepts lends itself to a 2 x 2 matrix treatment.

    - New Left: Left-liberal: progressive libertarian

    - New Right: Right-liberal: regressive libertarian

    - Old Left: Left-"corporal": progressive authoritative

    - Old Right: Right-"corporal": regressive authoritative

    I put myself in the Left-"corporal" box, which is traditional social-democrat. That is, seeking a more progressive distribution of economic goods, whilst under an authoritative regime.

    Social-democracy can only tolerate so much liberal diversity politics and then it starts to come apart at the seams. AUS has a fair degree of tolerance to diversity precisely because most of our immigrants, whether NESB or ESB, have more or less aimed to fit in.

    Roughly speaking, the more multi-cultural the settlement policy, the less multi-racial the selection policy.

  54. Jack,

    That's a pretty good effort. What does, "Roughly speaking, the more multi-cultural the settlement policy, the less multi-racial the selection policy" mean though?

  55. Jesse 7,

    The more liberal the racial differentiation in selection of immigrants, the more "corporal" the cultural integration in settlement of immigrants.

    Thus the US's liberal immigrant selection policy in the early 20thC ("Ellis Island") was followed by a an extremely "corporal" policy of immigrant settlement in the mid-20thC ("Americanization"). This worked pretty well, especially during WWII.

    The from mid-60s spurt of liberalism in immigration selection policy (1965 Immigration Act) was followed by liberalism in settlement policy ("multiculturalism").

    I leave it to the reader to evaluate the relative merits of these two approaches.

  56. Woah the Shirley Sherrod thing is CRAZY interesting...

    She and her husband started a farm after going to Israel and living on a Kibbutz.....then they claim discrimination for not getting a loan after a drought and get 13 Million dollars.....

    Was it discrimination or was she just a fraud from day one? Kibbutzim operate at a loss, so why would she get a loan if her farm was not making money? Sounds like a fraud to me.

    Oh man oh man oh man!

  57. So now Sherrod is going to sue Breitbart? With her connections and now with the Obama administration weighing in....she'd most likely win the lawsuit.

    Breitbart is officially screwed. I think this whole thing was a trap to get him eliminated--even though the woman is evil--there's no way he can prove that though.

  58. Fresh Traditional Conservative ProselyteSaturday, 24 July 2010 at 09:14:00 GMT+10

    Mr Strocchi, at 8:42am, Friday July 23, is mistaken somewhat in his reasoning.

    Your observations on the history of immigration to America, and public policy directing it, are generally sound.

    However, like a liberal universalist, you presume that a "corporal" effort to achieve the assimilation of post-1965 migrants would have succeeded if tried. This is nonsense as the vast bulk have not been either European, Christian or even white.

    In a century-and-a-half of Negro 'emancipation' in your country, and fifty years of 'civil rights', they are as insolent and contemptuous of true, European-American habits and morals as then.

  59. Democratic Senator proposes we drop affirmative action:

    The NAACP believes the tea party is racist. The tea party believes the NAACP is racist. And Pat Buchanan got into trouble recently by pointing out that if Elena Kagan is confirmed to the Supreme Court, there will not be a single Protestant Justice, although Protestants make up half the U.S. population and dominated the court for generations.

    Forty years ago, as the United States experienced the civil rights movement, the supposed monolith of White Anglo-Saxon Protestant dominance served as the whipping post for almost every debate about power and status in America. After a full generation of such debate, WASP elites have fallen by the wayside and a plethora of government-enforced diversity policies have marginalized many white workers. The time has come to cease the false arguments and allow every American the benefit of a fair chance at the future.

    I have dedicated my political career to bringing fairness to America's economic system and to our work force, regardless of what people look like or where they may worship. Unfortunately, present-day diversity programs work against that notion, having expanded so far beyond their original purpose that they now favor anyone who does not happen to be white.

    In an odd historical twist that all Americans see but few can understand, many programs allow recently arrived immigrants to move ahead of similarly situated whites whose families have been in the country for generations. These programs have damaged racial harmony. And the more they have grown, the less they have actually helped African-Americans, the intended beneficiaries of affirmative action as it was originally conceived.

  60. France deserves to be called a multi-culturalism country even though it isn't an immigration country. Australia has so far done a really good job to keep and protect the Anglo-Saxon culture as the main stream.