That's in line with a society based on rampant consumerism and debt. In that scenario, the main objective is to transfer as much wealth to the consumers as possible to keep the machine running. To those who are manipulated the easiest; to those who compete with each other. And that's of course women.
Don't fear though. Many men are overcoming this by simply working in an underground economy where they can make some good money. And the bonus is they can keep their earning away from taxation by the same system that puts them at a huge disadvantage.
Western liberal countries like the USA are deep in debt (e.g. whether it be college debt for the enlightened liberated populace or debt accumulated from wars for freedom and democracy in the Third World).
There's a lot of two-income households (aka "power couples") in debt. I think two-income households gives the impression that one is wealthy, but with the higher taxes and more spending (due to having more income), one can rack up quite a lot of debt. Flooding the workforce with women, brought wages down, due to more supply (more labour = lower wages).
Also a single person, if narcissistic and vain, can consume a lot and waste money on irrelevant luxuries, instead of concentrating on necessities, due to autonomy.
Does the stagnant male wage exist because fewer men are participating in the hard sciences, or more men are entering the workforce for those fields, or more women are getting jobs at those companies - depressing the wages of future hires, or greater competition between companies sees them have to do more with less? This also ignores the fact that CEO pay has risen and that there is less job security and lower chances of filing wrongful termination suits ... worldwide.
Completely agree with Jim - barter trade, cash in hand jobs will destroy any nation that hampers the ability of people to earn an honest wage. But does such a nation deserve to continue existing?
As Jim points out we've moved from a producerist society to a consumerist society.
We've used to have high average wages and moderately expensive goods, now we have cheaper goods but stagnant wages.
The big winners are those in the managerial class who get the best of both words - high wages and cheap goods.
The falling male wage is due to a combination of more upper middle class women bagging the high end jobs at the expense of upwardly-mobile males, more low end jobs going off shore, and more working class women competing with men for the remaining low end jobs.
Women also have a disproportionate share of the new service industry jobs like public relations.
As far as male education goes, the percentage of men in hard sciences and professions has stayed about the same, but more women have also entered these fields.
It's not only a gender war but also a class war, since the arrival of more high IQ middle class women onto the job scene has cut off a lot of opportunties for reasonably smart working/ lower middle class men to move into white collar jobs.
I've observed that the carnage is particularly bad in cultural and government institutions like councils, secondary schools, libraries, museums etc where a male with a non-numerate university degree now has little chance of finding a job (that's if they can stomach the toxic political correctness found in these institutions).
I'm assuming the Income axis is pay adjusted to 2009 levels. i.e. in about 1972 half of all men were not collecting more that $50,000 per year as an actual figure but had more than $50,000 per year purchasing power at 2009 prices. I'd be interested to know just exactly how they calculated the purchasing power.
There are valid points about fewer Men in Higher Education and declining Manufacturing driving down wages but when the massive flood of women went into work force post 1970 it was not understood the deal was to work twice as hard as when there was a single male breadwinner for only a percentage increase in family income. The market mechanism could only send male wages down.
A lot, though not all Male wage decline can put put down to declining purchasing power in relation to Real Estate. In the early 1970's the price a home sold for indicated how much money could be borrowed on a single male wage. However as women flooded into work force by the 1980's the price of a home reflected how much money could be borrowed on 2 wages, hence any Man trying to support his family with just his wages would find his real wage since the 1970's vastly reduced. The later your 2 income family entered the property market the closer you get to working twice as hard for the same real purchasing power a single male wage had in the early 1970's.
The other factor driving down male wages is the same one that drives female wages, maternity leave requirements. The cost of paying someone to do nothing productive is spread across the cost of employment and so all employers have to offer lower salaries.
I can personally attest to the above as an ICT Professional (a very male dominated profession)I was surprised the same position I hold in Australia pays quite a bit more in Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia and as I discovered from speaking to one of the Financial controllers when in Singapore it is to cover for liability for maternity leave which is not paid in most of South East Asia, nor a we talking about small amounts, he said at rough estimate about an extra 25K a year for me unadjusted for maternity leave.
I can personally attest to the above as an ICT Professional (a very male dominated profession)I was surprised the same position I hold in Australia pays quite a bit more in Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia I've heard that you get a higher salary than locals, particularly if you are white. And even if your qualifications are lower. Which is why many of the locals there ... want to go to the West. Who'da thunk it, capitalism works both ways.
I think it was originally globalisation that shipped high paying manufacturing jobs out of the US and the influx of third world migrant have saturated the labour market with cheap labour. How could average wages hold up? Wasn't that the point? I think we are watching the Brazilification of the US. In a couple of decades many places in the US will be like Sao Paulo with super rich flying helicopters over the the super poor. At least with wages so low the super rich will be able to buy their own security forces.
At least with wages so low the super rich will be able to buy their own security forces. Yes, but all you need is one disgruntled mechanic to have a screw loose on your mighty helicopter to make the day go bad. There isn't enough money in the world, when trust between people is irrevocably broken, or when they can be induced to do things against each other...
On a positive note, those with trades and vocational training, and even those without college in some cases, are starting to outearn those with 4-year university degrees or graduate school students in the USA, if they can beat the illegals at home and resist Third World workers, plus become mobile enough to chase their jobs along the globe.
There's a couple of stories circulating around the News about people with PHds on food stamps and on government assistance in the USA. And not all of them were liberal arts. Some of them tried to do real STEM but ended up on having superficial STEM and racking up a lot of debt and irrelevant material.
Some of them tried to do real STEM but ended up on having superficial STEM and racking up a lot of debt and irrelevant material. Real STEM has a failure rate of 90%. So glad that I'm part of the 10% ... I'd definitely say a degree that anyone can get, may probably be worth less. And a person with a STEM degree ... can easily get a qualification in vocational training and the trades :) The reverse, eh, not so much.
P Ray - "I've heard that you get a higher salary than locals, particularly if you are white."
Perhaps true 10 or 15 Years ago, not really now and back then the extra money was not for being White but for being a "perfect" English speaker. Today very few ICT professionals are Anglo Aussie and the ones that are, are like me the older blokes.
In the section of the global Telco where I work almost everyone is a specialist on 100K plus and of the about 40 staff, only about 10 were born here, of the ten 5 are Anglo - Aussie everyone else is typically Indian, Pakistani, Chinese, Vietnamese, Malaysian or Lebanese.
The Anglo Aussie kids are at disadvantage in my field outside Australia in South East Asia because all their job competitors now speak English as well as they do now they have migrated here, plus they have a second language, so Anglo Aussie kids know you can't compete against that and either stick LAN administration or realising you can make as money just going into trade if your good at it.
A bit OTT but the HR Dept has over the years put a little (but not overt) pressure on me to hire women (I don't get final say) as across our section of about 200 there are just over 30 women. I pointed out that in last 5 positions advertised I had received just 3 applications from women and had they succeeded it would have been like making someone with a first aid certificate a Surgeon. The HR women advised me that in the IT and ICT sectors women's representation has been falling steadily for 15 years but the popular press don't follow it as the jobs are filled by Non Anglo migrants, I'm not sure if this is correct but if it is, it proves Mark Richardson's point that Race tops Gender in the victim stakes.
In the section of the global Telco where I work almost everyone is a specialist on 100K plus and of the about 40 staff, only about 10 were born here, of the ten 5 are Anglo - Aussie everyone else is typically Indian, Pakistani, Chinese, Vietnamese, Malaysian or Lebanese. To study and work in Australia professionally you need to be able to speak English to an acceptable standard. Are they being paid the same as others in the industry, is the real question...
I pointed out that in last 5 positions advertised I had received just 3 applications from women and had they succeeded it would have been like making someone with a first aid certificate a Surgeon. The HR women advised me that in the IT and ICT sectors women's representation has been falling steadily for 15 years but the popular press don't follow it as the jobs are filled by Non Anglo migrants, I'm not sure if this is correct but if it is, it proves Mark Richardson's point that Race tops Gender in the victim stakes. Wouldn't that be Gender topping Race - simply because I am guessing that the women failed the test in your case so badly so they couldn't be taken on, such that the "helping hand up" would have been blatant and thus get the company in legal difficulties?
as the jobs are filled by Non Anglo migrants Again, seems to be Gender topping Race ...
That's in line with a society based on rampant consumerism and debt. In that scenario, the main objective is to transfer as much wealth to the consumers as possible to keep the machine running. To those who are manipulated the easiest; to those who compete with each other. And that's of course women.
ReplyDeleteDon't fear though. Many men are overcoming this by simply working in an underground economy where they can make some good money. And the bonus is they can keep their earning away from taxation by the same system that puts them at a huge disadvantage.
Western liberal countries like the USA are deep in debt (e.g. whether it be college debt for the enlightened liberated populace or debt accumulated from wars for freedom and democracy in the Third World).
ReplyDeleteSee this.
There's a lot of two-income households (aka "power couples") in debt. I think two-income households gives the impression that one is wealthy, but with the higher taxes and more spending (due to having more income), one can rack up quite a lot of debt. Flooding the workforce with women, brought wages down, due to more supply (more labour = lower wages).
Also a single person, if narcissistic and vain, can consume a lot and waste money on irrelevant luxuries, instead of concentrating on necessities, due to autonomy.
Does the stagnant male wage exist because fewer men are participating in the hard sciences, or more men are entering the workforce for those fields, or more women are getting jobs at those companies - depressing the wages of future hires, or greater competition between companies sees them have to do more with less?
ReplyDeleteThis also ignores the fact that CEO pay has risen and that there is less job security and lower chances of filing wrongful termination suits ... worldwide.
Completely agree with Jim - barter trade, cash in hand jobs will destroy any nation that hampers the ability of people to earn an honest wage.
But does such a nation deserve to continue existing?
As Jim points out we've moved from a producerist society to a consumerist society.
ReplyDeleteWe've used to have high average wages and moderately expensive goods, now we have cheaper goods but stagnant wages.
The big winners are those in the managerial class who get the best of both words - high wages and cheap goods.
The falling male wage is due to a combination of more upper middle class women bagging the high end jobs at the expense of upwardly-mobile males, more low end jobs going off shore, and more working class women competing with men for the remaining low end jobs.
Women also have a disproportionate share of the new service industry jobs like public relations.
As far as male education goes, the percentage of men in hard sciences and professions has stayed about the same, but more women have also entered these fields.
It's not only a gender war but also a class war, since the arrival of more high IQ middle class women onto the job scene has cut off a lot of opportunties for reasonably smart working/ lower middle class men to move into white collar jobs.
I've observed that the carnage is particularly bad in cultural and government institutions like councils, secondary schools, libraries, museums etc where a male with a non-numerate university degree now has little chance of finding a job (that's if they can stomach the toxic political correctness found in these institutions).
I'm assuming the Income axis is pay adjusted to 2009 levels. i.e. in about 1972 half of all men were not collecting more that $50,000 per year as an actual figure but had more than $50,000 per year purchasing power at 2009 prices.
ReplyDeleteI'd be interested to know just exactly how they calculated the purchasing power.
There are valid points about fewer Men in Higher Education and declining Manufacturing driving down wages but when the massive flood of women went into work force post 1970 it was not understood the deal was to work twice as hard as when there was a single male breadwinner for only a percentage increase in family income. The market mechanism could only send male wages down.
A lot, though not all Male wage decline can put put down to declining purchasing power in relation to Real Estate. In the early 1970's the price a home sold for indicated how much money could be borrowed on a single male wage. However as women flooded into work force by the 1980's the price of a home reflected how much money could be borrowed on 2 wages, hence any Man trying to support his family with just his wages would find his real wage since the 1970's vastly reduced. The later your 2 income family entered the property market the closer you get to working twice as hard for the same real purchasing power a single male wage had in the early 1970's.
The other factor driving down male wages is the same one that drives female wages, maternity leave requirements. The cost of paying someone to do nothing productive is spread across the cost of employment and so all employers have to offer lower salaries.
I can personally attest to the above as an ICT Professional (a very male dominated profession)I was surprised the same position I hold in Australia pays quite a bit more in Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia and as I discovered from speaking to one of the Financial controllers when in Singapore it is to cover for liability for maternity leave which is not paid in most of South East Asia, nor a we talking about small amounts, he said at rough estimate about an extra 25K a year for me unadjusted for maternity leave.
I can personally attest to the above as an ICT Professional (a very male dominated profession)I was surprised the same position I hold in Australia pays quite a bit more in Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia
ReplyDeleteI've heard that you get a higher salary than locals, particularly if you are white. And even if your qualifications are lower.
Which is why many of the locals there ... want to go to the West.
Who'da thunk it, capitalism works both ways.
I think it was originally globalisation that shipped high paying manufacturing jobs out of the US and the influx of third world migrant have saturated the labour market with cheap labour. How could average wages hold up? Wasn't that the point? I think we are watching the Brazilification of the US. In a couple of decades many places in the US will be like Sao Paulo with super rich flying helicopters over the the super poor. At least with wages so low the super rich will be able to buy their own security forces.
ReplyDelete@Elizabeth;
ReplyDelete"Flooding the workforce with women, brought wages down, due to more supply (more labour = lower wages)."
I agree, women are not without blame here.
Their choosing to flood the workforce has contributed to the downfall, in many ways.
At least with wages so low the super rich will be able to buy their own security forces.
ReplyDeleteYes, but all you need is one disgruntled mechanic to have a screw loose on your mighty helicopter to make the day go bad.
There isn't enough money in the world, when trust between people is irrevocably broken, or when they can be induced to do things against each other...
On a positive note, those with trades and vocational training, and even those without college in some cases, are starting to outearn those with 4-year university degrees or graduate school students in the USA, if they can beat the illegals at home and resist Third World workers, plus become mobile enough to chase their jobs along the globe.
ReplyDeleteThere's a couple of stories circulating around the News about people with PHds on food stamps and on government assistance in the USA. And not all of them were liberal arts. Some of them tried to do real STEM but ended up on having superficial STEM and racking up a lot of debt and irrelevant material.
Some of them tried to do real STEM but ended up on having superficial STEM and racking up a lot of debt and irrelevant material.
ReplyDeleteReal STEM has a failure rate of 90%.
So glad that I'm part of the 10% ... I'd definitely say a degree that anyone can get, may probably be worth less.
And a person with a STEM degree ... can easily get a qualification in vocational training and the trades :) The reverse, eh, not so much.
P Ray - "I've heard that you get a higher salary than locals, particularly if you are white."
ReplyDeletePerhaps true 10 or 15 Years ago, not really now and back then the extra money was not for being White but for being a "perfect" English speaker. Today very few ICT professionals are Anglo Aussie and the ones that are, are like me the older blokes.
In the section of the global Telco where I work almost everyone is a specialist on 100K plus and of the about 40 staff, only about 10 were born here, of the ten 5 are Anglo - Aussie everyone else is typically Indian, Pakistani, Chinese, Vietnamese, Malaysian or Lebanese.
The Anglo Aussie kids are at disadvantage in my field outside Australia in South East Asia because all their job competitors now speak English as well as they do now they have migrated here, plus they have a second language, so Anglo Aussie kids know you can't compete against that and either stick LAN administration or realising you can make as money just going into trade if your good at it.
A bit OTT but the HR Dept has over the years put a little (but not overt) pressure on me to hire women (I don't get final say) as across our section of about 200 there are just over 30 women. I pointed out that in last 5 positions advertised I had received just 3 applications from women and had they succeeded it would have been like making someone with a first aid certificate a Surgeon. The HR women advised me that in the IT and ICT sectors women's representation has been falling steadily for 15 years but the popular press don't follow it as the jobs are filled by Non Anglo migrants, I'm not sure if this is correct but if it is, it proves Mark Richardson's point that Race tops Gender in the victim stakes.
In the section of the global Telco where I work almost everyone is a specialist on 100K plus and of the about 40 staff, only about 10 were born here, of the ten 5 are Anglo - Aussie everyone else is typically Indian, Pakistani, Chinese, Vietnamese, Malaysian or Lebanese.
ReplyDeleteTo study and work in Australia professionally you need to be able to speak English to an acceptable standard. Are they being paid the same as others in the industry, is the real question...
I pointed out that in last 5 positions advertised I had received just 3 applications from women and had they succeeded it would have been like making someone with a first aid certificate a Surgeon. The HR women advised me that in the IT and ICT sectors women's representation has been falling steadily for 15 years but the popular press don't follow it as the jobs are filled by Non Anglo migrants, I'm not sure if this is correct but if it is, it proves Mark Richardson's point that Race tops Gender in the victim stakes.
Wouldn't that be Gender topping Race - simply because I am guessing that the women failed the test in your case so badly so they couldn't be taken on, such that the "helping hand up" would have been blatant and thus get the company in legal difficulties?
as the jobs are filled by Non Anglo migrants
Again, seems to be Gender topping Race ...