tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post728728058708528632..comments2024-03-25T19:48:24.624+11:00Comments on Oz Conservative: A leftist woman respondsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-25074533418920444972011-09-04T11:56:36.449+10:002011-09-04T11:56:36.449+10:00Georgina said,
"ON FEMININITY AS WEAKNESS: I...Georgina said,<br /><br />"ON FEMININITY AS WEAKNESS: I think traditionalists absolutely equate femininity with weakness. That's why they are constantly bemoaning the "feminization" of the culture."<br /><br />Excessive femininity in men is. And if feminine values become the dominant ones in society that is a feminised culture. Your good looking well dressed man still has to be able to hunt the mammoth, or defend the house when the going gets tough, or else you'll have to, or else noone will. <br /><br />"I think the key is to figure out what you genuinely like and are good at, and be prepared to push back if anyone gives you grief about it."<br /><br />Why should everyone have to figure out everything for themselves? If you do something hard odds on you won't want to do it, it might not be pleasurable, but you'll have the sense of accomplishment and social approval afterwards. Gender scripts push people into socially desirable behaviors not necessarily personally pleasurable ones. One of the benefits of our free society is that we have wide scopes and varieties of behavior and we aren't excessive in our demands on people, especially in comparison to other cultures. However, a wide scope of freedom of action doesn't mean that there are not socially desirable ideals or that we should do whatever we want at any given moment. Individual choice should play a role but shouldn’t be the sole determining factor when we live or direct our lives.Jesse_7https://www.blogger.com/profile/08732509086253241748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-15227513922713436932011-09-02T07:12:32.040+10:002011-09-02T07:12:32.040+10:00ON "FEMININITY" IN MEN: I also wanted t...ON "FEMININITY" IN MEN: I also wanted to address Oz's claim that I (or any other woman) would never tolerate any "femininity" in our men. Actually, that's quite untrue. The things I love most about my husband are his supposedly feminine qualities. He cares about his clothes; he is very nurturing and "maternal," towards young children (and towards me when I'm sick); he loves watching melodramas and soap operas; he gets along great with women, as well as men; and he is sensitive and easily hurt. <br /><br />I also think that metrosexuals and European men (who often put much more effort into their appearance than American and perhaps Australian men) are deeply attractive to a substantial portion of the straight female population. The sexual imagination of many women in my age group was formed by the 80s era of beautiful young men in eyeliner and fabulous very put together outfits. <br /><br />ON MY POSSIBLE HIDEOUSNESS: Ha ha ha. Nice try, commenters, but I'm not providing a picture of myself. I will leave my appearance to your most grim imaginings. I gotta say you all are kicking it old school with the whole "feminists must be ugly" argument. An oldie but a goodie! I am perfectly happy if we just assume I look like the creature from the black lagoon. <br /><br />ON WHETHER FEMINISTS ARE REALLY WEAK AND GULLIBLE: Someone commented that I must have been weak and gullible in my teen years to subscribe to all the feminist dogma. Actually, I was a feminist long before my teen years. But I am amused at the notion that, "Oh no, it takes REAL strength to be a submissive wife, unlike those weak, gullible feminists." This is such a transparent manipulation technique, like the person who says, "I will respect you so much more if you . . . [just do what I want you should do]." Apparently, you really do think women are stupid.Georgina Charlottenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-7800253042807248212011-09-02T06:41:22.241+10:002011-09-02T06:41:22.241+10:00Oh, a post for me! Sorry I missed this when it fi...Oh, a post for me! Sorry I missed this when it first came out. I am fascinated by the reactions to my comments. <br /><br />ON TRADING PUT-DOWNS WITH MEN IN THE OFFICE: I am really surprised by the response this reference. Immoral and childish??? Perhaps I was unclear. The put-downs I refer to are jocular and affectionate, a way of enhancing collegiality in the office. It does tend to be considered a more "masculine" form of interaction, but I can't believe anyone would have a problem with it, unless traditionalists demand complete humorlessness in the workplace. I have to assume that my reference was misunderstood, perhaps because I was unclear. <br /><br />ON FEMININITY AS WEAKNESS: I think traditionalists absolutely equate femininity with weakness. That's why they are constantly bemoaning the "feminization" of the culture. <br /><br />ON MIX AND MATCH STRATEGY: I am glad you mentioned the concept of "strategy" because my point had to do with the need to transcend strategy. I think most women have to have some sort of strategy for coping with socially enforced expectations of femininity because they are so pervasive and because they tend to present a lose-lose situation for women. On the one hand, if you embrace too much femininity, you are potentially casting yourself in a powerless role. On the other hand, if you completely reject any form of femininity, you will likely suffer societal disapproval. You can, as Oz suggests, feign a sort of "mix and match" but if it's not genuine, you are just playing a role. <br /><br />I think the key is to figure out what you genuinely like and are good at, and be prepared to push back if anyone gives you grief about it. If I happen to enjoy knitting (surely a valuable activity and pleasurable for some!), it would be the height of foolishness to avoid it just because it is deemed a "feminine" activity. That was my main point responding to your query how feminists "justify" the feminine. I don't have to. I should be able to knit a sweater AND be taken seriously in business or politics -- and, in fact, I think most of us can these days. <br /><br />ON BEING ATTRACTIVE TO STRAIGHT MEN: It's fun when a man thinks I'm attractive, but it has never in my life crossed my mind that I should change my personality, ambitions, or interests for this purpose. Nor do I believe for a moment that every man is seeking only one type of woman, one of undeniably "feminine essence." There are a lot of fish in the sea. People who tell girls, "You need to act in such-and-such way so men will find you attractive," are lying.Georgina Charlottenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-57014959093808010982011-08-30T21:58:53.696+10:002011-08-30T21:58:53.696+10:00Orientation of gender is related to family backgro...Orientation of gender is related to family background. Masculinity is a paternal inheritance and femininity is a maternal inheritance. according to the nature masculinity is basically designed for interact with the natural environment efficiently and femininity is basically designed for bearing children and for breast feeding. Both masculine and feminine gender specifications are there for sexual attraction. These things are not accepting by the feminists.Dulanthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005397450852152002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-42478836458223200272011-08-26T08:02:32.436+10:002011-08-26T08:02:32.436+10:00Mark:
" A man with options is not going to go...Mark:<br />" A man with options is not going to go for a mix & match woman - he's not going to accept the disappointment of a masculinised woman on the basis that he'll sometimes get a physically attractive one."<br /><br />Personally I always found rather masculine-minded women rather attractive, in that I liked spending time around them, talking with them, and they with me. It's one reason I've tended to find military and police women very attractive. I think this may be a different thing than the brainwashed feminist playing at being a man, though - those are not actually masculine-minded women, they're not the sort to do manly things like fix a broken car engine, sit in a piss-filled hole for days cradling a sniper rifle & waiting to kill someone, or (as my wife did) cram a maddened feral cat into a cat box after said creature has bitten her husband's finger to the bone. :) <br /><br />Speaking to my own marriage, one thing I found attractive about being with a rather masculine-minded women was that the relationship seemed to take less effort than one with a conventionally feminine woman would have. I think she was much less demanding of me than a girly girl would have been, just as she did less herself. And this suited me pretty well, until our son was born and I realised just how much of the feminine/maternal role I was expected to actually take on... (answer: 50%).Simon in Londonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-63794796035298202392011-08-26T07:48:52.393+10:002011-08-26T07:48:52.393+10:00"Do men really want to be in a relationship w..."Do men really want to be in a relationship with women who are half masculine and half feminine?"<br /><br />Speaking from experience: I think it depends which feminine traits they display, and which masculine ones!Simon in Londonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-62318439433317282142011-08-25T13:48:49.971+10:002011-08-25T13:48:49.971+10:00There's nothing wrong with most of the things ...There's nothing wrong with most of the things she does per se. I don't think anyone thinks reading history makes a women unfeminine, and being physically active is always good. The question is, can she integrate everything she does into an attractive feminine whole, or does she fall apart into chunks of contrary attitudes and behaviors adopted to make a point. Based on her tone, I'm guessing the latter. She has the wrong attitude - focusing on trading putdowns is a bad sign from any woman.pechorin2http://pechorin2.owordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-68695779353479528652011-08-25T02:20:26.552+10:002011-08-25T02:20:26.552+10:00Well, I once worked with a woman who had the exact...<i>Well, I once worked with a woman who had the exact same beliefs as this woman, and she was quite physically attractive, and married, so I think attacking her on grounds of being an omega or undesirable is the wrong way to go.</i><br /><br />Just because she's physically attractive doesn't mean her soul isn't disgusting. She's pretty ugly on the inside.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-28302915908462306802011-08-24T16:01:54.214+10:002011-08-24T16:01:54.214+10:00Charlotte's husband for example is probably qu...Charlotte's husband for example is probably quite supportive and understanding of her view on gender roles and the nature of men and women. Either that or he's a torn man because he wouldn't express his true feelings about this subject.Elizabeth Smithhttp://alcestiseshtemoa.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-9682985058940889462011-08-24T15:59:10.851+10:002011-08-24T15:59:10.851+10:00What an abhorrent response from Charlotte. It'...What an abhorrent response from Charlotte. It's saddening.<br /><br /><i>Georgina is adopting this mix & match strategy - or something very much like it. The wearing of dresses and the making of desserts is offset by the lifting of weights and the watching of sports.</i><br /><br />Indeed.<br /><br /><i>It's true that the interests of men and women overlap. It's not true, though, that the average person is a random mix of the traditionally feminine and masculine</i><br /><br />I agree. I'd say that in general people are at the <i>core</i> masculine or feminine with outer layers of the opposite.<br /><br /><i>The mix & match strategy is more like a game that middle-class lefties play to indicate political awareness - and part of the game is to know how far it can be taken.</i><br /><br />Kind of reminds me of SWPL liberals. They live and stay away from Africans but continually praise them, uplift them and put away their faults.<br /><br /><i>She blamed sexism and wondered why I laughed my head off.</i><br /><br />Reminds me of how contradictory it's when feminists go around approving of sexualization but are always putting out the rape allegation card.<br /><br />Btw good comment Slow Motion Fall.<br /><br /><i>Wrong.<br /><br />Men of my generation quite like mix and match women. You have to remember men with options in their 20's have given up on marrying until later.</i><br /><br />You're right but it's because liberalism has become the mainstream worldview and therefore men are as supportive, influenced and affected by feminism as women (e.g. sections of men's rights activists, womanizers and others).Elizabeth Smithhttp://alcestiseshtemoa.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-48352917742808389792011-08-24T14:12:45.334+10:002011-08-24T14:12:45.334+10:00""A man with options is not going to go ...""A man with options is not going to go for a mix & match woman - he's not going to accept the disappointment of a masculinised woman on the basis that he'll sometimes get a physically attractive one.""<br /><br />Wrong.<br /><br />Men of my generation quite like mix and match women. You have to remember men with options in their 20's have given up on marrying until later.<br /><br />When you want to get married, your perspective tends to change.jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-71305448128850305832011-08-24T11:35:43.015+10:002011-08-24T11:35:43.015+10:00"Only human females, with proper instruction ..."Only human females, with proper instruction during their early years can become women, otherwise they will remain only females. Said differently, being a female is a biological trait, being a woman is a trait of civilization."<br /><br /><br />"one is not born a woman; one becomes one"<br /><br />"then why not become a man?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-30217642331029395702011-08-24T11:27:33.289+10:002011-08-24T11:27:33.289+10:00"But just because I find the concept of "..."But just because I find the concept of "femininity" profoundly silly (and perhaps damaging when social mores elevate weakness as a positive quality in women)"<br /><br />Why yes, and what were you talking of gullibility, again?<br /><br />"Most people are a mix of what was traditionally considered masculine and what was traditionally considered feminine. "<br /><br />They are? And how did that come to be?<br /><br />"What is important to me as a feminist is whether I have equal status and dignity in society,"<br /><br />So when will society start considering random women as pedophiles?<br /><br />"and whether I conduct myself in a morally responsible way."<br /><br />Which btw I made up myself?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-47741309792858070522011-08-24T07:36:59.414+10:002011-08-24T07:36:59.414+10:00CamelCaseRob,
My experience is the same as yours....CamelCaseRob,<br /><br />My experience is the same as yours. <br /><br />The idea of mix & match is that the woman will do unattractively masculine things part of the time, but will compensate and repair the damage by dressing up fabulously and looking terrific at other times.<br /><br />This is something that's going to work better for a reasonably attractive woman. The thinking is that a man will be willing to put up with/deal with the confusing gender bending stuff because there is the reward of the woman looking great at times.<br /><br />The woman who engages in mix & match will do worse, though, than if she were more consistently feminine. A man with options is not going to go for a mix & match woman - he's not going to accept the disappointment of a masculinised woman on the basis that he'll sometimes get a physically attractive one.<br /><br />So the mix & match women, in my experience, usually partner below their own natural level.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-86660761837408629382011-08-24T06:08:37.741+10:002011-08-24T06:08:37.741+10:00It's why we need a picture of her.It's why we need a picture of her.The Continental Opnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-80320411727282150552011-08-23T23:30:47.471+10:002011-08-23T23:30:47.471+10:00Well, I once worked with a woman who had the exact...Well, I once worked with a woman who had the exact same beliefs as this woman, and she was quite physically attractive, and married, so I think attacking her on grounds of being an omega or undesirable is the wrong way to go.CamelCaseRobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-62817694816819773762011-08-23T08:24:09.816+10:002011-08-23T08:24:09.816+10:00Like all Maxist groups, organised feminism finds a...Like all Maxist groups, organised feminism finds a percieved problem, builds on it and offers an earthly paradise for all those who follow the marxist edict, in this case feminism.<br /><br />They have mainly targeted mothers in western countries, the feminist line is that you can not be fulfilled as a woman if you spend time looking after your children and if having a child will get in the way of a fulfilling career, just kill the child before it is born. All this is doing is to simply destroy the fabric of our society and allow a population explosion of 3rd world children in western nations.<br /><br />If feminists were genuinely concerned about the well being of women I would expect to see them demonstrating against legal prostitution or the treatment of women under Islam. Strange, the feminists are completely silent on issues such as this.<br /><br />Now looking at the original post. what is wrong with a woman wanting to be feminine, it is no more being weak than for any normal male who wants to be masculine is necessarly a bully.<br /><br />Sorry all you chain-smoking Mizzes out there, males and females have been different since day one and it will always be that way.(Apart from occasional genuine medical trans-gender issues)<br /><br />I worked in an engineering orientated enviroment, occasionally we had women there who wanted to be one of the boys, it is really sickening. We also had a few women there who want to be women, they are quite accepted, no sign of weakness either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-86399656548287639302011-08-23T06:33:45.738+10:002011-08-23T06:33:45.738+10:00On the other hand, I'm not sure a medal for co...On the other hand, I'm not sure a medal for courage in order, it is foolhardiness, plain and simple.The Contnental Opnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-85162102413755083802011-08-23T06:31:46.934+10:002011-08-23T06:31:46.934+10:00SP,I think in a previous thread she spoke about a ...<i>SP,I think in a previous thread she spoke about a husband.</i><br /><br />I'd like to see a picture of this "Georgina" I bet she's a hag. Any man willing to consummate a marriage with her is worthy of a DSO, at least.The Continental Opnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-71654193669741966892011-08-22T23:58:11.404+10:002011-08-22T23:58:11.404+10:00@MR
SP,I think in a previous thread she spoke abou...@MR<br /><i>SP,I think in a previous thread she spoke about a husband.</i><br /><br />I'm skeptical.The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-75860433438059765622011-08-22T23:23:54.182+10:002011-08-22T23:23:54.182+10:00SP,I think in a previous thread she spoke about a ...SP,I think in a previous thread she spoke about a husband.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-29294264519262562002011-08-22T19:36:42.321+10:002011-08-22T19:36:42.321+10:00She's single isn't she?
Omega female.She's single isn't she?<br /><br />Omega female.The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-75137331525957559572011-08-22T17:21:57.001+10:002011-08-22T17:21:57.001+10:00"trade put-downs with men in the office"..."trade put-downs with men in the office"<br /><br />She knows they probably think she is flirting right?jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-30879516012091574692011-08-22T17:17:04.441+10:002011-08-22T17:17:04.441+10:00When I hear women say the want to reject the femin...When I hear women say the want to reject the feminine because it is weak, I just remember the 19 year old girls at uni, the sexual and social power they have is insane, and these days many of them know it.<br /><br />I know one girl who got through a law degree by being incredibly cute and smiling a lot. Nice girl, not one to sleep around too much, but she was amazed when after wiggling her way through her Articles year she was sacked by one firm after another.<br /><br />You see she was in her mid 20's and not quite as insanely hot anymore, and was being required to do top level work she had limited experience with.<br /><br />She blamed sexism and wondered why I laughed my head off.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-67365274300395918272011-08-22T15:25:40.776+10:002011-08-22T15:25:40.776+10:00How much of her 'mixing and matching' is t...How much of her 'mixing and matching' is to be more appealing to men?<br /><br />All the women I know who have 'man' hobbies are trying to Meet Men. <br /><br />I hate sports :) (except women's volleyball, and a few heart pounding Olympic ones)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com