tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post6454819062944413055..comments2024-03-25T19:48:24.624+11:00Comments on Oz Conservative: We will never get anywhere as nihilistsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-89853843358957053852013-10-14T19:25:36.082+11:002013-10-14T19:25:36.082+11:00A pertinent article on Daniel Greenfield's sit...A pertinent article on Daniel Greenfield's site:<br />http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2012/12/winning-demographic-war-and-culture-war.html<br /><i>Above all else, education is the future. Traditionalists who fail to understand this will allow the educational system and the entertainment industry to transform their children into progressives. Progressives know that control of the educational system means control of the future. Without the educational system and immigration, progressives are doomed to be cafe radicals. With them, they can count the generations until they control everything. The progressives have few children of their own. Your children are their children. If they can corrupt your children, then they have a future. If they cannot, then they will go off and die in a corner. The progressives have three strengths, class warfare, cultural programming and immigration. America had prosperity that negated class warfare, but it neglected to safeguard its culture from the left and did not consider the consequences of Third World immigration. With their political and culture power, the left destroyed prosperity and now with all three cards in their hand, the progressives are rising high. But too many conservatives have despaired because they have fallen prey to the myth of a perfect America that once was and can never be again. But America was never perfect, like every person, it was a work in progress. It was a struggle between ideas and ideologies and that struggle did not end because the progressives have worked and plotted to get this far. Defeating them is a matter of exploiting their weaknesses and firming up our strengths.<br /><br />Cultural secession means cutting away the educational and entertainment culture of the left out of your home. It means creating your own alternative education and entertainment and grouping in communities that act as a support structure for traditional values. Is it easy? No. It involves sacrifice. But groups such as the Amish and Orthodox Jews have done it and have thrived doing it.<br /></i><br /><br />I think it's important to keep kids away from the indoctrination of public schools. Cooperative home schooling could be a lot easier than each family doing it individually.<br /><br />There are probably excellent lessons from communities of the past. Maybe the Foxfire books and the like would throw up some ideas.<br /><br />Just helping each other to stamp out mealy-mouthed liberal appeasement would be a great start e.g. learning great responses to common liberal tripe etc.<br /><br />I'm sure there are many other obvious options although at the moment I cannot think of them!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-4718253277353069692013-10-13T21:24:21.255+11:002013-10-13T21:24:21.255+11:00Anon, those are all excellent ideas. The third one...Anon, those are all excellent ideas. The third one is what we are up to here in Melbourne right now. I think we'll be at that stage for another couple of years. After that, we'll just have to put our heads together to think of the best practical activities to push things forward. It might include involvement in electoral activities, or having a presence on campuses, or intervening in issues of the day. In general, though, the aim is to grow, to get better at putting a positive politics forward that can recruit new people, so that the resources start to emerge for more ambitious projects (e.g. community building projects).Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-45060767416658627092013-10-13T18:16:07.540+11:002013-10-13T18:16:07.540+11:00Appreciate the post and the comments...
Anyone el...Appreciate the post and the comments...<br /><br />Anyone else got practical suggestions for actions that can be taken? I'd love to be inspired...<br /><br />Don't have any myself, really, other than finding and supporting a good church, strengthening family, and trying to build some kind of group that meets to sharpen up on these things and support each other.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-17763352542957584662013-09-03T00:29:26.911+10:002013-09-03T00:29:26.911+10:00Just looked over the comments - spending energy tr...Just looked over the comments - spending energy trying to engage with the likes of asdf seems positively harmful, even if he's not a troll. I think you need comment moderation.Simon in Londonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-63860981126069572232013-09-02T08:35:18.637+10:002013-09-02T08:35:18.637+10:00(Just got back from 3 weeks away).
Mark, this pos...(Just got back from 3 weeks away).<br /><br />Mark, this post shows why you're the best traditionalist writer today, bar none. You are completely right about this. We must seize every opportunity to take a positive approach, not moan helplessly.Simon in Londonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-79903253615858976172013-08-22T14:48:09.783+10:002013-08-22T14:48:09.783+10:00asdf, I have been reading your comments around the...asdf, I have been reading your comments around the blogs- marginal revolution- and if you are leaving the left good luck to you. That is honestly meant. it took me many years to understand money. <br /><br />You are a man so your job is hard. If you are smart you will work harder on what you bring to the marriage table - stability , maturity , a positive outlook and you only know the flaws that will out under pressure and the flaws in your gene pool that you need to counteract for your offspring sake. That is what a real man does when he is preparing himself. I am assuming that you are prepared to house a wife and child/children? I am assuming that you will be able to support a wife financially through period of childbearing and the loss of super eranings and loss of earnings she will suffer through taking time off for children? This also is the reality of marriage. Are you ready? Are you prepared? <br /><br />If so then you can start looking within groups that usually misses out. But in these groups the scrutiny in usually more intense. I am assuming that there is an reason that you have not been successful looking for a match within your own age/education. So spread your net wider and meet country girls in the smaller towns who have not had the same oppourtunities. Meet young women or even slightly older ones who go to TAFES where the career expections are different. <br /><br />The regional centres ( Tamworth/Newcastle/ Wooloonggong in NSW ) in Australia are still a good 10-15 years behind not in all cases but there are some families who daughters have never left or have recently returned. <br /><br />The really rural postcodes are usually quite wealthy or working class but outliers happen and make good stories. Take your weekends exploring during the week if you can and pop into local businesses at lunch time and see who you can have coffee with. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-60687000154628873782013-08-17T07:59:37.124+10:002013-08-17T07:59:37.124+10:00If your community is just some atomized strangers ...<i>If your community is just some atomized strangers loosely agreeing to some abstract principals and meeting once a week its not really going to save anyone.</i><br /><br />Asdf, that is not the community being aimed at even in the medium term. It's a necessary step in going from nothing to something. <br /><br />Look at it this way:<br /><br />1990s - no trad organisation in Australia at all<br /><br />early 2000s - internet makes possible for a handful of trads, mostly from the US, to meet up on the internet<br /><br />later 2000s - internet contact has led to a small movement, but still mostly US and still internet based<br /><br />early 2010s - efforts to organise on the ground - first face to face meetings take place<br /><br />The job right now is to keep the momentum going. That's harder than you think when the task facing us is so daunting. We need to take things step by step.<br /><br />It would be a great achievement, for instance, if in the next year or so, I could consolidate the current branch of traditionalists in Melbourne and add another one.<br /><br />I also need to focus more on pamphlet writing, so that there is a clear setting out of trad beliefs.<br /><br />We need to get better at producing materials that will help create new trads, rather than simply gathering up ones that already exist.<br /><br />I could get better at using new social media like Facebook.<br /><br />These are the kind of practical steps needed to build up a base from which more ambitious projects can then be launched.<br /><br />Think it through, Asdf. If we could have branches that meet regularly in most towns and suburbs it then becomes possible to think seriously about launching a real community somewhere (as well as having the political clout to defend it - such a community will be very vulnerable whilst liberalism goes unchallenged amongst the political class).Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-91671463400712917652013-08-16T23:24:55.810+10:002013-08-16T23:24:55.810+10:00"then the community saves at least those in i..."then the community saves at least those in it"<br /><br />Does it? That is the relevant question I'm asking. If your community is just some atomized strangers loosely agreeing to some abstract principals and meeting once a week its not really going to save anyone. People are saved by strong personal connections that are meaningful and form the backbone of concrete action.asdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-8595841368950655732013-08-16T20:31:36.364+10:002013-08-16T20:31:36.364+10:00asdf,
establishing community means in the short r...asdf,<br /><br />establishing community means in the short run establishing a community, not changing the whole society. It might in the long run change society. If not, then the community saves at least those in it, and society can burn in the hell it created and called.Valkeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10835782570473516162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-58835972914072361562013-08-16T13:24:56.121+10:002013-08-16T13:24:56.121+10:00J,
"And that you are prepared to abandon a p...J,<br /><br /><i>"And that you are prepared to abandon a principle as a "lost cause" if it is sufficiently unpopular"</i><br /><br />Something isn't a "lost cause" because its unpopular, its a "lost cause" if you can't get the desired result (unpopularity being one possible reason).<br /><br />If we are talking about something that can be done solo then one can do it regardless of circumstances. However, if we are talking about a social outcome (even one as small as a single family) then by definition such an outcome will never be completely within the control of the individual, and thus is there are no willing partners then it really is a "lost cause" regardless of the efforts of the individual.<br /><br />Mark Richardson,<br /><br /><i>"I have to tell you though that there is no political tactic I can employ right now to put things right immediately."</i><br /><br />Obviously. If you are going to change society its going to be a long and arduous journey. If your going to wake up every day and fight against overwhelming odds you want a reason to do so. The most fundamental reason is family. People will do a lot of things if they think it means a better future for their children. If you are just an atomized individual who will leave behind no legacy what daily source of strength does one look to?<br /><br />If you want any hope of organizing a Christian community with the strength to live Christian lives and eventually bring about Christian social change it begins with the family at its center. If church is nothing more then another book club where strangers preach at you I imagine it will continue to lose ground as it has.asdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-8708797456282575442013-08-16T08:03:27.713+10:002013-08-16T08:03:27.713+10:00If one can't find a good wife the "man up...<i>If one can't find a good wife the "man up and act on your principals" trad wants him to marry a bad wife</i><br /><br />Asdf, I'd challenge you to find anything remotely like that advice at this site. <br /><br />I understand that you're a man in search of a good wife. I wish you well in this and encourage you to persevere. <br /><br />I have to tell you though that there is no political tactic I can employ right now to put things right immediately.<br /><br />I do think you've taken some of your frustrations out on people who are trying to lay the foundations for a future alternative. That has a spoiling effect that serves no useful purpose.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-52216319807900337662013-08-16T02:59:24.492+10:002013-08-16T02:59:24.492+10:00"a different (more popular) decision?"
..."a different (more popular) decision?"<br /><br />a different (more popular) opinion.<br /><br />(Don't know how that "decision" got in there...)Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-14583962881777890032013-08-16T02:58:21.103+10:002013-08-16T02:58:21.103+10:00It's got nothing to do with "being unpopu...<i>It's got nothing to do with "being unpopular". </i><br /><br />You obviously think it does, or you wouldn't have said "I've acted on principle many times in my life in the face of overwhelming odds and no hope of reward (probably punishment). However, one would prefer not to make a life of such lost causes." <br /><br />How else can we understand that except as you having one (unpopular) opinion and everyone else having a different (more popular) decision? And that you are prepared to abandon a principle as a "lost cause" if it is sufficiently unpopular, i.e., an "overwhelming" number of people oppose it for a certain length of time?<br /><br />All your talk about realism and realistic outcomes just shows that you are already defeated in your own mind, and are ready to surrender (because it is the "realistic" thing to do).Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-71835638699041653292013-08-16T01:45:54.417+10:002013-08-16T01:45:54.417+10:00asdf,
yes, there is the Hitler card, so convenien...asdf,<br /><br />yes, there is the Hitler card, so convenient, so predictable ...<br /><br />Read Matthew 10:38-42. The requirements of Jesus are high.<br /><br />Anyway, if you read all my comments you notice that I would accept many kinds of men. What I would not accept is men who actively function as ballast to others and try to drag others to slow them down and stop them in every matter. Yes, whiny loser types. I would discard them all, without blinking an eye. My relation to them might be through charity, but not as a fellow member of community.Valkeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10835782570473516162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-66398566075597860292013-08-16T01:37:48.349+10:002013-08-16T01:37:48.349+10:00J,
It's got nothing to do with "being un...J,<br /><br />It's got nothing to do with "being unpopular". It has to do with whether there is concrete action one can take to live a traditional life.<br /><br />Let us say getting married and having lots of children is a good traditional principal. How does one go about this in the world today? If one can't find a good wife the "man up and act on your principals" trad wants him to marry a bad wife (after all, he ain't getting any younger and stop being so picky). Is such a thing likely to end in a good and holy outcome? And this doesn't even get into the question of what is good or bad, how to tell, how people can change, and how circumstances and community nudge decision sets.<br /><br />An effective traditional community tries to give people fundamentally sound options, not tell them to push through bad ones because its all they've got.<br /><br />All this talk of, "you're just weak," is unreflective gesticulating. I've made too many hard choices in my life to let argument phase me. People want to do good, and they will make sacrifices for good, but only if good is some outcome they can realistically work towards.asdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-56422313348482329632013-08-16T01:09:09.683+10:002013-08-16T01:09:09.683+10:00Acting on a bad principal is dumb, not brave.
Wh...<i>Acting on a bad principal is dumb, not brave. </i><br /><br />What principle, specifically, do you think is "bad"? <br /><br />Mark is certainly not advocating that we act on "bad" principles - unpopular ones, yes, but not bad.<br /><br /><i>And one of the way people check their principals to see whether they make sense is to look at the real world effects of them.</i><br /><br />Traditionalists argue that their principles are good even though they are not popular.<br /><br />Liberals argue that their principles are good <b>because</b> they are popular.<br /><br />Going along with liberal principles will have "positive" effects in the "real world" - you will be popular and accepted, yaay!<br /><br />The traditionalist response is that liberal principles cannot work in the real world over the long term, because they are at variance with biological and economic reality.<br /><br />If you want to go the expedient course, go ahead, but don't pretend it is because traditionalist principles are "bad". It is because YOU lack the courage to act in accordance with what is right but unpopular.Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-32565663314575088242013-08-15T23:36:29.723+10:002013-08-15T23:36:29.723+10:00Mark,
"Acting on principle" is not a ca...Mark,<br /><br />"Acting on principle" is not a catch all. I've acted on principle many times in my life in the face of overwhelming odds and no hope of reward (probably punishment). However, one would prefer not to make a life of such lost causes. When your principals are constantly running up against lost causes and you have nothing to show for them you start questioning the principals.<br /><br />Acting on a bad principal is dumb, not brave. And one of the way people check their principals to see whether they make sense is to look at the real world effects of them. "Acting on principal" sounds too much like "man up" (and take this rotten deal without complaining) sometimes.<br /><br />Bruce had a post on this that applies:<br /><br />http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2013/08/christians-against-sexual-revolution.htmlasdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-4287500299185556692013-08-15T18:57:19.324+10:002013-08-15T18:57:19.324+10:00Asdf wrote:
If you expect people to live Christia...Asdf wrote:<br /><br /><i>If you expect people to live Christian lives and offer nothing this worldly in return it will forever remain a fringe movement.</i><br /><br />Asdf, I don't think you are grasping where things are at. If we had a large movement with large resources we could offer lots of things. That would be easy.<br /><br />But here's the catch. If there are only people taking the attitude "what can you deliver for me" then we'll never get to that stage.<br /><br />What we need at the stage we are at now are people who are willing to act on principle.<br /><br />I understand, given human nature, that there will be fewer such people in comparison to those who simply want something delivered to them. But they are nonetheless the people we need.<br /><br />By the way, a traditionalist movement is not just a Christian movement. It is a movement that defends the existence of a particular people. The religious aspect is certainly a significant part of that, something that has to be gotten right, but so too are the larger cultural and historic aspects of that people's existence.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-43744399974281643302013-08-15T14:19:05.519+10:002013-08-15T14:19:05.519+10:00Anonymous,
That's more useful.
The real life...Anonymous,<br /><br />That's more useful.<br /><br />The real life example I can think of is my friend who wanted to start a family and live a certain lifestyle, so he became an orthodox Jew and they arranged a suitable wife within a year. The price is high (following lots of crazy orthodox creeds) but it was the option he believed in.<br /><br />Of course I'm not Jewish so not much of an option.asdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-857881808247622892013-08-15T12:14:09.299+10:002013-08-15T12:14:09.299+10:00asdf, the Orthosphere had a discussion or two abou...asdf, the Orthosphere had a discussion or two about the very thing you're speaking of. <br /><br /> http://orthosphere.org/2012/11/25/where-to-move/<br /><br />http://orthosphere.org/2012/11/20/back-to-qumran/<br /><br />Hope these help!<br /><br />--Mrs. JohnsonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-41276716063814843572013-08-15T09:16:22.654+10:002013-08-15T09:16:22.654+10:00Valkea,
Yes, Jesus was sure only to surround hims...Valkea,<br /><br />Yes, Jesus was sure only to surround himself with the elite. Romans were always complaining that the Christians were the strongest amongst them.<br /><br />WTF does "defeatist" even mean? When Hitler ordered German teenagers to defend Berlin where the ones that surrendered a bunch of defeatists?<br /><br />Zealotry in a cause must be measured against a combination of its righteousness and the odds of victory. If defeatism is simply used as a slogan to trick people into a scam that doesn't meet worthy criteria then it has no meaning.<br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />See above. If you expect people to live Christian lives and offer nothing this worldly in return it will forever remain a fringe movement. Perhaps monastic life is biblically noble, but certainly not about to change anything.asdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-41088764613539373722013-08-14T19:57:44.509+10:002013-08-14T19:57:44.509+10:00Asdf,
I don't know of any such community to r...Asdf,<br /><br />I don't know of any such community to recommend.<br /><br />If a trad community were to form, then offering a better culture of family formation could be a selling point.<br /><br />I think you have to be careful not to look at things in terms of "what can you deliver for me" - in the early stages it's more a question of acting on principle.<br /><br />Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-73034511632459654132013-08-14T19:40:59.538+10:002013-08-14T19:40:59.538+10:00When forming a community, it is important to selec...When forming a community, it is important to select the right type of men, *and* deter and discard wrong type of men.Valkeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10835782570473516162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-20991962301511543752013-08-14T17:22:33.146+10:002013-08-14T17:22:33.146+10:00asdf,
traditional/church community is not crutch ...asdf,<br /><br />traditional/church community is not crutch for defeatist and whiny men, loser types. If you think and feel that way and can't change, or at the minimum, can't go with the flow of stronger men, maybe you should just stay away from what others here are planning.Valkeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10835782570473516162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-78282623999032115272013-08-14T17:20:54.245+10:002013-08-14T17:20:54.245+10:00This comment has been removed by the author.Valkeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10835782570473516162noreply@blogger.com