tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post4927082890684703134..comments2024-03-25T19:48:24.624+11:00Comments on Oz Conservative: A dismal view of relationshipsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-35962363864832194862011-05-10T23:23:18.346+10:002011-05-10T23:23:18.346+10:00Factory,
I often hear MRAs talk about social cons...Factory,<br /><br />I often hear MRAs talk about social conservatives shaming or browbeating men into marriage. Maybe that does happen somewhere, but I'm not aware of it. It's certainly not what I do.<br /><br />The reasons for men to marry are the same as they have always been: to experience marital love, to get to undertake the role of husband and father, to provide the best foundation for the raising of children and to best transmit into the future one's own family, culture and people.<br /><br />I know from personal experience both the upside and the downside of marriage. Overall, it's something of tremendous significance in life and men should not allow it to be taken from them. It's something to fight for.<br /><br />Factory, gay marriage is not irrelevant to the position of men in marriage. If two women can marry and raise children, then fathers officially become optional within family life. <br /><br />Having said that, I agree that we have to focus on the real root of the issues we face. But the divorce laws and the culture of modern womanhood are not the root causes - they are the offshoots of something else - of the beliefs that opinion makers hold about what is right and just. <br /><br />These beliefs are rarely challenged. We are stuck in a politics in which debate is limited to how these beliefs about what is right and just can best be realised. <br /><br />It's not easy to break through this closed politics. But it's what we need to do if we're to challenge at the source.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-6038433406596049722011-05-07T11:12:53.042+10:002011-05-07T11:12:53.042+10:00Elizabeth:
Actually, I'm one of those MRAs th...Elizabeth:<br /><br />Actually, I'm one of those MRAs that thinks that women will do precisely what the laws allow them to do with minimum pain. Ergo, I advocate harsher laws and attitudes towards women's misbehaviour - at LEAST as harsh as the last 50 years have been on men.<br /><br />I would clap my hands with glee if women were denied the vote, simply because I truly think that when it comes to these matters, women truly are drooling morons by and large. I think giving women the vote was one of the biggest mistakes ever made in the US and Canada, and I offer the legal and political landscape as proof. And note this outcome is IDENTICAL to that predicted by Pliny the Elder several thousand years ago, which suggests this is actually women's nature, and not modern society, that is to blame.<br /><br />I also personally advocate 'term-contractual marriage' where the agreement is a legally binding one with a start AND end date, exactly as in the business world, complete with penalty clauses and all the rest.<br /><br />I would not cross the street to 'stand up for women'. <br /><br />And if it all went South, I would sit back and watch, and any pleas for help would be met with a sour look and a "you made your bed".<br /><br />Because that's what someone does with children to teach them important lessons.<br /><br />And if that offends, at least I still care, and still enjoy women's company. Many men don't, not just in the MRM. You'd probably be stunned at the percentage of men who hold women in the lowest regard, and for all the reasons outlined at those 'extremist' sites like The Spearhead. And with blinding stupidity, women continue to refuse to see this for what it is, and blame all manner of other things instead.<br /><br />Mark:<br /><br />That last bit goes for Religious types as well. Critics should look to your own houses before you condemn others. It seems like I read an article daily on how Churches are struggling to get men to attend. Just read one today in the Globe and Mail, actually. The criticisms levelled about focussing on bogus issues (because they fit your own biases) like Gay Marriage are spot on.<br /><br />If you REALLY cared about marriage, you'd be lobbying to change the laws to a point where it's possible to protect oneself, rather than trying to browbeat and shame men into it. Churches are every bit as Politically Correct and Gynocentric as Feminism is, or so literally every article I've read on the subject says.<br /><br />And from what I've seen, not a single one of you is willing to stick his or her neck out and state the obvious. Marriage is FAR too risky for men to enter into - and just HOW did it get that way? Marriage was never supposed to be a RISK, it was supposed to make two people stronger by creating a family.<br /><br />And to date, none of you have ever answered why you continue (as a group) to bang on about stuff NO ONE believes matters, rather than face up to the truth. You appeal to honour, and integrity, and submission, and sense of rightness all the time, in support of men getting married.<br /><br />Isn't it time you guys displayed some of your own, and did something about the REAL problems for a change?Factoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07339614725666249518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-48063992685466447812011-05-05T20:21:48.292+10:002011-05-05T20:21:48.292+10:00James,
My assessment of The Spearhead isn't a...James,<br /><br />My assessment of The Spearhead isn't as harsh as yours. There are some currents of thought there that I don't think are helpful (e.g. the idea that social conservatives are to blame for everything, that men should go their own way, that letting Western society fall apart is a good political strategy, that all women are equally unworthy of marriage and relationships etc).<br /><br />But I still find myself agreeing with a significant portion of the posts and if I write a reasonable comment it usually attracts some support.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-20731505018912742932011-05-05T10:26:16.717+10:002011-05-05T10:26:16.717+10:00""But, but, but isn't this the kind ...""But, but, but isn't this the kind of girl you want Christian white western men to marry?""<br /><br />Nope.<br /><br />Although I would really enjoy breaking her view of the world piece by piece.<br /><br />I have no sympathy for a bloke who would be willing to marry such a woman without fixing her head first.<br /><br />And a strong man eventually makes a woman agree with him. If your views stay the same hers move to fit better with you.<br /><br />So in short, my traditionalist message to men is not to get married with their eyes closed. <br /><br />Understand the risks of modern marriage and the nature of most women. Keep searching around until you find one who is not a slut whom you can mould to your will.<br /><br />If you cannot do the above, don't get married. <br /><br />The last thing a Traditionalist should want is more crappy families with harpy like women making men's and children's lives miserable.<br /><br />If no good men will stay with such beasts, the behavior will eventually change.<br /><br />Women don't have to raise their standards to make our society better. Men need to raise theirs.<br /><br />In short if your woman is going to be chippy, don't marry her. Make her earn it.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-46919340521845965682011-05-05T10:18:06.072+10:002011-05-05T10:18:06.072+10:00Spearhead and its dark, doom filled view of the wo...Spearhead and its dark, doom filled view of the world reminds me more of the nazi-nutters at Stormfront every day.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-37193308631536995482011-05-04T01:02:17.728+10:002011-05-04T01:02:17.728+10:00"hence I accept I will likely be single forev..."hence I accept I will likely be single forever and I am fine with that," <br /><br /> Damn good job. What man in his right mind would marry such a self centred narcissistic nutcase...<br /><br /> And, in the unfortunate event that she may jag a man.... what sort of a mother would she make?? The mind boggles..<br /><br /> She oughta be shot. ;)Kathy Farrellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16532126739204105127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-20054100691687778732011-05-03T23:22:13.058+10:002011-05-03T23:22:13.058+10:00Its not fair that men are bigger and stronger than...Its not fair that men are bigger and stronger than women. What can we do about it??Jesse_7https://www.blogger.com/profile/08732509086253241748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-25288444516216650672011-05-02T21:43:21.860+10:002011-05-02T21:43:21.860+10:00http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2011/05/getting-called...<a rel="nofollow"> http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2011/05/getting-called-white-knight.html </a>Elizabeth Smithhttp://alcestiseshtemoa.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-3961706352586621872011-05-02T21:41:14.924+10:002011-05-02T21:41:14.924+10:00Factory I agree with your post greatly but you are...Factory I agree with your post greatly but you are a rare type of MRA. While you believe that society today is beyond repair (and I myself may agree with this sentiment) after the fall of liberal society you would probably be one of the types that would try to restore traditional gender roles and traditional conservatism in general. A lot of MRAs are not like that and seem hostile to "marriage 1.0" as "marriage 2.0". Some of them have called me an arrogant female supremacist and on the same level as feminists. They think that I view women as holy or something.Elizabeth Smithhttp://alcestiseshtemoa.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-11135573217888566612011-05-02T15:55:18.776+10:002011-05-02T15:55:18.776+10:00"At best that's defeatist. At worst nihil..."At best that's defeatist. At worst nihilistic."<br /><br />You are aware the Prime Minister is inviting Chinese warships to Austraian ports?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-67844631968029384722011-05-02T06:48:38.598+10:002011-05-02T06:48:38.598+10:00Anon,
Most people here in Australia have either a...Anon,<br /><br />Most people here in Australia have either a traditional marriage or some variant of it. <br /><br />Yes, the laws mean that the wife can at her will enforce marriage 2.0. But that's not in the interests of most women, particularly when the woman finds herself in her 30s or older with kids. Most women are not then in much of a position to "trade up" even if the laws allow her to attempt to do so (which is why after a certain age most divorces are no longer initiated by women but by men).<br /><br />Anyway, there are MRAs now who openly do reject marriage 1.0. They argue that any form of marriage is oppressive to men; that marriage is unnatural and impossible; and that men should aim at casual hookups or some other alternative.<br /><br />I was pleased to see myself proved a little wrong, though, in the thread which Amanda contributed to. There were a couple of commenters who came out and defended marriage and traditional sex roles. So the debates at The Spearhead aren't entirely dominated by the anti-marriage group.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-44365701228372190802011-05-02T06:48:02.205+10:002011-05-02T06:48:02.205+10:00Great description of the conflict most feminist wo...Great description of the conflict most feminist women seem to feel. They don't 'hate men'...they want to BE men. And they want to force men to be women (but they better not become unattractive in the process).<br /><br />I'm sort of surprised that you haven't seen the thrust of most of the MRM when it comes to these matters. Basically, that the laws make Marriage a massive risk, and the infantile, petty, selfish behaviour so endemic among women makes them considerably less than trustworthy.<br /><br />When articles written in the "Where have the good men gone?" vein actually start asking men the real questions, instead of pandering to women's vanity and insecurity, I am convinced they will find that exact same 'increasingly single voice' you see at The Spearhead.<br /><br />It is not MRAs that have this attitude. It's men in general.<br /><br />Now I know you're going to 'pshaw' that, but consider a couple of things:<br /><br />Men REALLY love women. I sure do. The most enjoyable moments and memories in my life were usually with women or because of them. MRAs are no different to any other man in that they would love nothing better than to be in a healthy relationship, with a healthy woman they can trust. And MRAs are no different from any other man in seeing that this kind of woman is vanishingly rare, if not extinct.<br /><br />Some MRAs, like myself, are motivated by a desire to restore sanity to the law and society so that I CAN have that again, although the longer it takes the less relevant that aspect becomes.<br /><br />Many of the 'nihilist' MRAs see society as beyond repair, and that further attempts to save it are simply funneling more money into the corrupt hands behind the decline in the first place. You may disagree, but again I believe this attitude is not limited to MRAs at all, but is a generalized feeling among men. They have 'given up'. You can read about it in your local paper periodically.<br /><br />MRAs have contended for years that we are not CREATING anything, we are a Bellwether, trying to warn others what's coming down the pike, and that's it. Well, OK, and a few more things nowadays, but not initially.<br /><br />There are serious problems throughout ALL of society, and that includes religious / traditionalist ones as well.<br /><br />It's not an MRA thing.Factoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07339614725666249518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-17976920414100847032011-05-02T03:18:01.225+10:002011-05-02T03:18:01.225+10:00They have rejected the traditional ideal of having...<i>They have rejected the traditional ideal of having a loving wife at home.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/04/25/marriage-isnt-dying-its-dead/" rel="nofollow">Actually they realize such a thing doesn't exist anymore.</a> What they reject is marriage 2.0 (feminist marriage) masquerading as traditional marriage. Feminist marriage is now the only game in town. Traditional marriage no longer exists because of the government so the MRAs can't reject something that no longer exists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-39841787301175453792011-05-01T23:09:08.418+10:002011-05-01T23:09:08.418+10:00The feminist fantasy, of course, is that men find ...<i>The feminist fantasy, of course, is that men find women like that attractive -- when most men do not.</i><br /><br />I was always attracted to the women who seemed most naturally at home being women.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-61863167389376680252011-05-01T22:38:26.175+10:002011-05-01T22:38:26.175+10:00Yes, she's quite muddled, isn't she?
She ...Yes, she's quite muddled, isn't she?<br /><br />She doesn't seem to really know what she wants. On the one hand she says she wants equality, while on the other she say she wants a Mr. Mom who will be a SAHD and yet make her weak in the knees. Fundamental problems of a lack of self-understanding seem to be rampant here (albeit not terribly uncommon, sadly) in terms of thinking about what she wants vs. what actually attracts. And, in any case, how is she supposed to attract such a man when she, herself, acts like one and prides herself in acting like one?<br /><br />I think you're right, Mark, that to the extent she has a non-muddled view, it appears to be a marriage between two men, one of whom has long hair, wears makeup, and has a vagina -- but that's where the differences end. The feminist fantasy, of course, is that men find women like that attractive -- when most men do not. 40 years of the media relentlessly portraying women like this as attractive hasn't really changed male attractional patterns much, or suddenly made men overwhelmingly attracted to masculine acting but feminine looking women.knightblasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03042581488365314771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-85234834470613986312011-05-01T21:00:00.149+10:002011-05-01T21:00:00.149+10:00If Amanda was to read this I'd say kudos on no...If Amanda was to read this I'd say kudos on not wanting to be a man basher, however, you haven't mentioned child raising as a legitimate aim. Presumably your parents didn't want to lead a solely personally preoccupied life as they managed to have you. It would be a real shame if you couldn't see child raising as something important in itself.Jesse_7https://www.blogger.com/profile/08732509086253241748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-38574284808422495732011-05-01T20:39:43.990+10:002011-05-01T20:39:43.990+10:00High time that "Amanda", with her endles...High time that "Amanda", with her endless wailing about being "nothing but PEOPLE", learned to read Joseph de Maistre's magnificent demolition job on the whole deracinated "cult of humankind" in general. J de M said:<br /><br /><i>"There is no such thing as man in the world. In the course of my life I have seen Frenchmen, Italians, Russians etc.; I know, too, thanks to Montesquieu, that one can be a Persian. But as for man, I declare that I have never met him in my life; if he exists, he is unknown to me."</i>Arnoldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-10659858919299367362011-05-01T19:18:29.984+10:002011-05-01T19:18:29.984+10:00But, but, but isn't this the kind of girl you ...<i> But, but, but isn't this the kind of girl you want Christian white western men to marry? </i><br /><br />Not by a long shot. Just because we believe that marriage is good (an ideal of marriage) doesn't mean we agree that the current state of marriage conducted by liberalism is righteous.Why are Jews liberal?noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-50077810131820722362011-05-01T19:00:07.230+10:002011-05-01T19:00:07.230+10:00I think a 'person' represents a liberal id...<i>I think a 'person' represents a liberal ideal as the physical equivalent of the Lockean blank slate i,e, something that can be continually molded into a more liberally acceptable form.</i><br /><br />Good point. Being a man or a woman suggests definite qualities and therefore limits to what can be reinvented or self-defined.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-76699700524992706342011-05-01T18:57:58.040+10:002011-05-01T18:57:58.040+10:00But, but, but isn't this the kind of girl you ...<i>But, but, but isn't this the kind of girl you want Christian white western men to marry?</i><br /><br />Not by a long shot. As she herself admits, she's not fit to be married.<br /><br /><i>Who in their right mind would want to fight in a conflict to save her sorry arse?</i><br /><br />Agreed. She's not the kind of woman any man in his right mind would make sacrifices for. <br /><br /><i>The king is dead, long live the Han!</i><br /><br />At best that's defeatist. At worst nihilistic.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-6838058366287466762011-05-01T18:31:04.993+10:002011-05-01T18:31:04.993+10:00But, but, but isn't this the kind of girl you ...But, but, but isn't this the kind of girl you want Christian white western men to marry?<br /><br />Who in their right mind would want to fight in a conflict to save her sorry arse?<br /><br />The king is dead, long live the Han!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-56982966438917896382011-05-01T14:55:12.901+10:002011-05-01T14:55:12.901+10:00"We are PEOPLE nothing but people..."
I..."We are PEOPLE nothing but people..."<br /><br />I find it hard to understand why people refer to 'chairpersons' or 'spokespersons' as such when the sex of the latter is known.<br />While the language conveys and reinforces the irrelevance of gender, one cannot fathom why people use it without considering what the implications of calling a man or woman a 'person' are. <br /><br />I think a 'person' represents a liberal ideal as the physical equivalent of the Lockean blank slate i,e, something that can be continually molded into a more liberally acceptable form.Davouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11679094598013542866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-68552603042857295662011-05-01T14:19:27.194+10:002011-05-01T14:19:27.194+10:00Jesse, thanks.
BTW, it seems as if the discussion...Jesse, thanks.<br /><br />BTW, it seems as if the discussion threads at The Spearhead aren't entirely dominated by an anti-marriage and anti-tradition view. The <a href="http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/04/30/why-we-need-to-stop-telling-women-to-settle/#comment-87874" rel="nofollow">comment</a> by Jeb is worth reading.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-9057295361424799112011-05-01T13:27:52.443+10:002011-05-01T13:27:52.443+10:00Excellent article and commentary. "Equality&q...Excellent article and commentary. "Equality" as a basis for marriage decoupled totally from gender roles I imagine is practically very very difficult.Jesse_7https://www.blogger.com/profile/08732509086253241748noreply@blogger.com