tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post3803780832267494004..comments2024-03-25T19:48:24.624+11:00Comments on Oz Conservative: Is feminism killing the left?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger83125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-34519862586334707962011-10-19T00:45:31.712+11:002011-10-19T00:45:31.712+11:00Why is it no matter where I go on the internet I e...Why is it no matter where I go on the internet I encounter Richard Dawkins being awesome? It's like he's trying to proposition me. I feel like I'm being raped. I already bought 2 of your books, stop stalking me on the net ya bio Brit.Tyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12305974455384425337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-23864402890498277862011-09-02T22:37:41.978+10:002011-09-02T22:37:41.978+10:00Anon, nice comment, thanks.
You're right - a ...Anon, nice comment, thanks.<br /><br />You're right - a common dodge used by feminists is the "there are many different kinds of feminism" line.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-75792728910751141182011-08-30T01:19:23.706+10:002011-08-30T01:19:23.706+10:00Superb Article!!
I would say left wing men will e...Superb Article!! <br />I would say left wing men will end up being more anti feminst than conservatives as they realise feminism was and is a lie and hoax.To its core feminism is an evil ideology the fig leaf of "equality" is wearing thin as feminisms equality IS: "some are more equal than others". Its threadbare second line excuse of: "there are many different kinds of feminism" to deflect criticism for the neurosis and psychosis displayed so often by its adherants. This too is looking dated and forlorn. Its clear too<br />feminism has rendered left wing politicians and quite a few on the right utterly spineless...<br />Feminism is nearly over and its rotten legacy is all around us.<br /><br />All political ideology looks suspect these days and the truth is dawning on more people.We would be better off with much much LESS government and the time is on us when we will all be telling the state to get the hell out of our lives. When we do feminism will wash into the sewers of history it is uncreative, turgid,parasitic by nature and can only survive on state handouts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-82569678655125006562011-07-11T11:31:45.152+10:002011-07-11T11:31:45.152+10:00Elizabeth,
I hope you don't take anon's p...Elizabeth,<br /><br />I hope you don't take anon's personal jibes to heart (you don't seem to have). Your contributions are very welcome here.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-57989075580358483112011-07-11T11:29:08.467+10:002011-07-11T11:29:08.467+10:00What is one of the reasons why the West did much b...What is one of the reasons why the West did much better when Christianity was stronger?<br /><br />It's not so much that Christianity aims explicitly at traditionalism. It's that people who follow Christianity are less likely to lapse into nihilism. Christians are more likely to accept the idea of transcendent values to which the individual can meaningfully orient himself. <br /><br />That's especially true of the intellectual class. Most people can travel through life just accepting the good as they find it. But intellectuals are more questing in their search for a world view to live by. When the Western political class became non-Christian, it led to the idea that there was nothing inherently good or bad - the universe was simply indifferent to such values. Therefore, if values existed it was as assertions of human will or in the very capacity of the human will to choose or assert.<br /><br />That's the great modern secular heresy and as we know all too well it's highly destructive of traditional society.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-91282705015472831342011-07-11T09:20:48.815+10:002011-07-11T09:20:48.815+10:00Anonymous said,
"Not anti-semetic mind you. ...Anonymous said,<br /><br />"Not anti-semetic mind you. But I shall have no further conversation with a person whose stock comes desert-dwelling psychopaths that preach immigration for Europe, while denying immigration to their very own country.<br /><br />This conversation is over."<br /><br />Wow pathetic argument. Along with the Elizabeth bashing truly a weak display. So you've read a couple of books on Christianity, bully for you. If you were to stop bitching and moaning you might see how it cold be beneficial for your life, that will produce a chuckle no doubt, as well as societies. <br /><br />As Christianity doesn't emphasis the material it doesn't buy into the left and liberal notions that focus on material prosperity as the essence of a successful, purposeful, or happy life and society. It is not revolutionary to feed and clothe the poor nor to commit yourself to the highest moral values. Either way this is a thread about feminism and not Christianity so you might want to take your wares elsewhere.Jesse_7https://www.blogger.com/profile/08732509086253241748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-61068360440761631842011-07-11T08:02:53.694+10:002011-07-11T08:02:53.694+10:00Anon,
The modern Western state is not a Christian...Anon,<br /><br />The modern Western state is not a Christian one. It is a liberal one. The people most influential in forming the state ideology argue about the extent to which they should tolerate Christianity as a private belief. They do not support it. <br /><br />I actually agree with you that Christianity is not the perfect vehicle for a traditionalist politics. But then again I'm not sure I know of any religions which are. Buddhism calls on people to renounce attachments to this world rather than to conserve what we love.<br /><br />The argument I'm making is not that Christianity is a perfect vehicle, but that it is not the driver of what is going wrong. And, if you look at what the most influential members of the Western political class have believed for the past 100 years or so, you will find very few with an orthodox Christian belief. <br /><br />If we had traditionalism in politics and Christianity in religion we would be fine.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-70178187593477169142011-07-11T03:47:23.606+10:002011-07-11T03:47:23.606+10:00Tell me there plan is orthodox and conservative! T...<i>Tell me there plan is orthodox and conservative! That'll get a laugh out of me.</i><br /><br />Why should I? It isn't Orthodox nor traditional conservative. There are many liberal "conservatives" and libertarians out there.Elizabeth Smithhttp://alcestiseshtemoa.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-77357942984493243002011-07-11T03:44:58.102+10:002011-07-11T03:44:58.102+10:00you'd be out hunting for a man, and producing ...<i>you'd be out hunting for a man, and producing babies.</i><br /><br />I'm preparing for that just now (I'm 18). Will start officially hunting next year (I'll be 19).Elizabeth Smithhttp://alcestiseshtemoa.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-52612880994899447142011-07-11T03:39:12.447+10:002011-07-11T03:39:12.447+10:00Elizabeth, I just visited your blog, it appears yo...<i>Elizabeth, I just visited your blog, it appears you are (unfortunately) Jewish, which makes you my ideological enemy.</i><br /><br /><b>I'm not Jewish. My maternal grandmother was a Russian Jew.</b><br /><br /><i>Regarding Orwell, lmao. Is that all you got? You women should really stay out of politics. If you were as right wing you'd say you were Elizabeth, you'd be out hunting for a man, and producing babies. Not leaving empty-headed bon mots on blog pages. Leave this conversation for the men, honey, you got nothing.</i><br /><br /><b>I'm not involved in politics.</b> <i>I'm a fan of theology and philosophy.</i> Why do I get the feeling that you are <b>left-wing</b> with these comments?<br /><br /><i>"I believe it took about 300-400 years in the West for liberalism to ascend completely to the form of today no?"<br /><br />Cool story, did you learn that from Oprah?</i><br /><br />No.<br /><br /><i>Christianity has consistently been heretical, not orthodox.</i><br /><br />Sure heretical forms emerged but they died out as well. Christianity has been somewhat orthodox in the past.Elizabeth Smithhttp://alcestiseshtemoa.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-49082873859341598242011-07-11T01:53:15.968+10:002011-07-11T01:53:15.968+10:00*their*theirAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-67615257398171052052011-07-11T01:51:50.243+10:002011-07-11T01:51:50.243+10:00BTW, here's your faggot American Christian ...BTW, here's your faggot American Christian 'friends' post-WW2:<br /><br />http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,801396,00.html<br /><br />Tell me there plan is orthodox and conservative! That'll get a laugh out of me. <br /><br />Also, this: http://sacred-texts.com/utopia/csus/index.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-54196104660749591962011-07-11T01:37:41.718+10:002011-07-11T01:37:41.718+10:00Elizabeth, I just visited your blog, it appears yo...Elizabeth, I just visited your blog, it appears you are (unfortunately) Jewish, which makes you my ideological enemy. <br /><br />Not anti-semetic mind you. But I shall have no further conversation with a person whose stock comes desert-dwelling psychopaths that preach immigration for Europe, while denying immigration to their very own country.<br /><br />This conversation is over.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-80423771479163899412011-07-11T01:31:11.958+10:002011-07-11T01:31:11.958+10:00(continued from above)
Regarding Orwell, lmao. Is...(continued from above)<br /><br />Regarding Orwell, lmao. Is that all you got? You women should really stay out of politics. If you were as right wing you'd say you were Elizabeth, you'd be out hunting for a man, and producing babies. Not leaving empty-headed bon mots on blog pages. Leave this conversation for the men, honey, you got nothing.<br /><br />"I believe it took about 300-400 years in the West for liberalism to ascend completely to the form of today no?"<br /><br />Cool story, did you learn that from Oprah? Unfortunately for you, I have several books that contradict this (not that you will probably read them, being Christian and all). We'll just start with one: Norman Cohn's The Pursuit of the Millennium. A large scholarly work (Written by a conservative no less!) about leftist Christians and proto-communist protestant sects pre-dating your shitty, back-of-the-envelope summations. Again, not likely you'll read it, because you've already made up your overtaken-mind. Alternatively, you can go read wikipedia articles on the Protestant dissenter sects.<br /><br />tl;dr you Christian conservatives are exactly what is wrong with conservativism today. You allow a mind virus with known heretical mores to infect your fellow Euro-stock, and then you blame it on 'philosophers' or whatever ad hoc bullshit excuse you'll all make up next time. Had there been a total anti-religion movement in the last few hundred years, and not a bullshit, 'gotta respect all religions, keep church separate from state blah blah blah' (a phenomenon created by protestants mind you -- not secular philosophers -- see constitutional lawyer Hamburger's works on this), we wouldn't be in this mess. But do continue, when I see you fumbling around in the dark trying to pin the problem on some nebulous concept (when the problem is right under your nose) I get a good laugh out of it. It's like watching a monkey fiddle around in the back of the tv with a screwdriver.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-22989306840803737582011-07-11T01:30:41.863+10:002011-07-11T01:30:41.863+10:00Mark and Elizabeth, you are both wrong regarding o...Mark and Elizabeth, you are both wrong regarding orthodoxy. Christianity has consistently been heretical, not orthodox. Go read Bauer's sociology of early Christianity. Heresy preceded orthodoxy. <br /><br />Had you both been around 2000 years ago, you would have been against it (similar to encroaching Islam and secular forms of Christianity, aka leftism). Early anti-Christian, European pagan writers (Porphyry, Julian, etc) saw it for what it was: an inherently anti-authoritarian, middle eastern, non-European, wackjob cult. <br /><br />Regarding, philosophy's impact on leftism. Utter bullshit. Go read Collin's social network analysis of worldwide philosophical networks in 'The Sociology of Philosophies'. There is a clear sociological ancestry from Greek philosophy (co-opted and twisted by Christian writers), to Early Modern and Modern philosophy. I can produce further works on the Christian takeover of Greek philosophy if you so wish. Early Christian writers co-opted Greek philosophy, as it was their main cultural rival in antiquity. <br /><br />I'm supposing you won't read any of these, because what we have for 'conservatives' today are usually anti-intellectual morons that refuse to look at the very underpinnings that allow leftism to spread (the Judaeo-Christian moral memeplexes).<br /><br />Elizabeth ...<br /><br />"It isn't". <br /><br />Honey. Do you know what an argument is? Typically it consists of premises and conclusions. A statement isn't an argument. <br /><br />You have two contradictory states of affairs to deal with: <br /><br />(1) Christianity has been left wing throughout history, and has consistently produced and influenced the most left-wing of movements. <br /><br />(2) Christianity as you believe: stalwart of tradition, standing against history yelling stop!<br /><br />Unfortunately you believe (2), when all the evidence suggests (1). Also funny how your anti-authoritarian mindset kicked in to defend your mind virus ("OH NOES! DEFEND THE CHRISTIANS!"). Your argument against (1) is that: (a) I sound like a leftist, and (b) that there exists non-liberal forms of Christianity. <br /><br />(a) is a hilarious argument, moronic, but hilarious. A rhetorical analysis isn't an argument, honey. But try again, I'm looking forward to more Elizabeth Smith argument analysis inbetween you washing the dishes, or whatever it is you faux-conservative women do. As for (b), again as above, see Bauer, heresy preceded orthodoxy. Everytime Christianity crystallizes into some form of orthodoxy, a new dominant heretical sect arises (see Protestantism or the insane offshoots that we are dealing with today). You can also read other sociological accounts of Christianity that pin it for what it is. 'The Breaking of the Image: A sociology of Christian Theory and Practice' by Martin is a good one. It shows Christianity for what it is: a communist brother-hood of man, that constantly strives for utopia. <br /><br />(continued)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-46022833589773752492011-07-11T01:10:58.236+10:002011-07-11T01:10:58.236+10:00They are pretty hostile far-right wingers like us ...<i>They are pretty hostile far-right wingers like us and think that we are a bunch of girls hiding our true natures and that will rape men's lives sooner or later.</i><br /><br /><br />Sorry I meant <i>They are pretty hostile <b>towards</b> far-right wingers like us and think that we are a bunch of girls hiding our true natures and that will rape men's lives sooner or later.</i><br /><br />How many times have I heard the idea that I'm a "Victorian feminist" whom views women as holy? These websites are pretty counter-productive.<br /><br />Some of them call any form of race realism as "Bigoted white nationalists" and I think one MRA website was giving thanks and celebrating the death of LGBT activist.<br /><br />If you're still a liberal at your core does it matter that you disagree about the "edges"? Sometimes it does but other times it doesn't.Elizabeth Smithhttp://alcestiseshtemoa.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-34981070538857924642011-07-11T01:05:13.727+10:002011-07-11T01:05:13.727+10:00But the antifeminist liberal men refuse to identif...<i>But the antifeminist liberal men refuse to identify positively with feminism. They won't make the alliance. They see feminism as a source of oppression in their lives</i><br /><br />The "anti-feminist" liberal men may refuse to identity with feminism but their moral ideals are practically the same (feminism after all is a component of liberalism). The core is the same, they just disagree about the edges. It's not possible to have liberal men whom are hostile to feminism. I have sometimes been on the receiving end of their attacks along with Morticia, Alte, Kathy Farrelly, Laura Wood and other traditional conservative female types. They are pretty hostile far-right wingers like us and think that we are a bunch of girls hiding our true natures and that will rape men's lives sooner or later.Elizabeth Smithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-27181774914860435322011-07-10T13:01:22.729+10:002011-07-10T13:01:22.729+10:00Calling these liberal men "anti-feminist"...<i>Calling these liberal men "anti-feminist" is like calling a libertarian or a neoconservative a traditional conservative. Very flawed.</i><br /><br />I understand your point Elizabeth, but I still think it's possible to have liberal men who are hostile to feminism - despite feminism itself being an expression of liberalism.<br /><br />What the liberal men object to in feminism is not the rejection of traditional sex roles, nor the rejection of masculinity and femininity.<br /><br />Liberal men agree with feminism on these issues. The disagreement has to do with issues of equality. Feminists believe that men are privileged at the expense of women and that it is therefore just if women are favoured in various ways by society (a kind of redistributive justice).<br /><br />Antifeminist liberal men disagree. They believe that the average man is not privileged and that feminists are not seeking equality but are after female advantage (i.e. the antifeminist liberal men believe that women have more rights than men).<br /><br />I know that to traditionalists the similarities between the two groups will seem greater than the dissimilarities.<br /><br />After all, the liberal men often argue that "we are oppressed because we are still expected to act like men, we can't stay home and look after babies, we're not allowed to express emotion etc".<br /><br />You then get feminists who respond by saying "Hey, we support all those things too. Let's have an alliance".<br /><br />But the antifeminist liberal men refuse to identify positively with feminism. They won't make the alliance. They see feminism as a source of oppression in their lives.<br /><br />It is possible to have disagreements within liberalism and this is what is happening here.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-24340708623684789272011-07-10T12:38:20.790+10:002011-07-10T12:38:20.790+10:00I believe it took about 300-400 years in the West ...<i>I believe it took about 300-400 years in the West for liberalism to ascend completely to the form of today no?</i><br /><br />That's about right. That doesn't mean that Western society was dominated by a fully formed liberalism 300 years ago the way it is today. I agree with Professor John Carroll that liberalism back then operated in "fusion" with other sources of authority, such as aristocratic honour or certain Christian virtues. It was during the course of the twentieth century that liberalism began to assert itself more aggressively as the sole source of authority/legitimacy, which is why it strikes as now as a more radical and intrusive political ideology.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-38450844992729941972011-07-10T06:12:46.342+10:002011-07-10T06:12:46.342+10:00I'd say there are four groupings of political ...<i>I'd say there are four groupings of political men.There are feminist men as described above. There are traditionalist men like myself. Then there are a growing number of anti-feminist liberal men. <b>These men want to do for men what feminism did for women, namely to try to maximise male autonomy.</b> They interpret this as meaning having fewer traditional obligations and being able to find sexual satisfaction without having to make such commitments to women. <b>Then there are the Roissy type players who also want to ditch traditional commitments to women and society, though they do understand that this policy will lead even actually to the collapse of the West.</b></i><br /><br />"Anti-feminist liberal" men or MRA's are a huge contradiction. There is nothing different between them and the feminists (a component of liberalism). They are just the male and the female version of the same thing --- > the liberal worldview.<br /><br />Is it a coincidence that both of these groups use the same tactics and both feminists and men's rights activists (MRA's) attack traditional conservatives and far-right wingers as the root of the problem?<br /><br />Calling these liberal men "anti-feminist" is like calling a libertarian or a neoconservative a traditional conservative. Very flawed.<br /><br />In fact while I greatly dislike gamers (Roissy and Roosh) I have a little respect for their views since they both know that what they are doing is wrong and will hasten down the decline of the West. Perhaps the decline of the West should accelerate on some level after all a lot of women aren't good nor in their right mind.Elizabeth Smithhttp://alcestiseshtemoa.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-3108694059283456612011-07-10T05:59:18.441+10:002011-07-10T05:59:18.441+10:00Basically to claim that orthodox Christianity is l...Basically to claim that orthodox Christianity is leftist/liberal is not only untrue but it is a rewriting of history in the style of <i>1984</i> by George Orwell.<br /><br /><i>But in general orthodox Christianity doesn't fit well with radical modernism - which is why it had to be neutered over the course of several centuries.</i><br /><br />Agreed. I believe it took about 300-400 years in the West for liberalism to ascend completely to the form of today no?Elizabeth Smithhttp://alcestiseshtemoa.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-30588980514241261452011-07-10T05:54:53.876+10:002011-07-10T05:54:53.876+10:00Being a Christian Conservative is a contradiction....<i>Being a Christian Conservative is a contradiction.</i><br /><br />It isn't.<br /><br /><i>Christianity has consistently given us the WORST of insane left winggery.</i><br /><br />So orthodox Christianity is leftist? It sounds like you're confused. To think of orthodox Christianity as leftist is to deny that <i>any</i> non-liberal Christian form existed in the past and that resistance is futile since everything has always been liberal! To say something like this strikes me as the common leftist tactic to believe that everything is equal and to stop <i>opposition</i> and <i>resistance</i> to <i>true liberalism</i> by tagging forces of opposition as leftists so that there is in effect no fight against the liberal worldview. Nice try though.Elizabeth Smithhttp://alcestiseshtemoa.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-45611199932920740002011-07-09T20:28:47.045+10:002011-07-09T20:28:47.045+10:00Anon (above),
It's an important issue, but no...Anon (above),<br /><br />It's an important issue, but not the one this post is concerned with.<br /><br />I'll just briefly note that I (mostly) disagree with your comment. There are aspects of Christianity that can be, and have been, used by the radical left. But in general orthodox Christianity doesn't fit well with radical modernism - which is why it had to be neutered over the course of several centuries.<br /><br />Radical modernity is a product of philosophy not theology. It is the philosophers who have not served us well. That is not to say that you couldn't have a better kind of philosophy - that's certainly possible. It just didn't happen that way.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-13392331636052305022011-07-09T20:21:41.074+10:002011-07-09T20:21:41.074+10:00lol@the anon above saying that atheistic conservat...lol@the anon above saying that atheistic conservatism is a contradiction. <br /><br />Being a Christian Conservative is a contradiction. <br /><br />Christianity at its base is a left wing religion of the proles that has consistently agitated against authority through history. There's nothing conservative at all about the Bolshevism of antiquity. From the anti-authoritarian, "free-love" Gnostic cults, through to Protestantism and the proto-communist sects like the Diggers, right through to the original Communist league (a Christian brotherhood called the league of the just. Funny that you don't get Christians bring that up every time they blame Communism on Atheism, combined with influences of agitating Protestant sects during the pre-revolutionary Russian-era). <br /><br />Christianity has consistently given us the WORST of insane left winggery.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-90955498501718093472011-07-09T18:35:12.701+10:002011-07-09T18:35:12.701+10:00Mark said...
""Personally, I don't ...Mark said...<br /><br />""Personally, I don't get how that is supposed to work out. Under traditional arrangements a man was paid a living wage, worked a 40 hour week, got status and respect from being able to support his family, and did not have to do much of the inside domestic work.<br /><br />Under the feminist arrangements, men no longer have to be paid a living wage (and the male wage has stagnated since the 1970s); average male work hours and the retirement age are rising rather than falling; costs are up since dual income families can bid up the price of housing; men are then expected to do half of the childcare and domestic work when they get home from their jobs; and men no longer get the kudos for being able to support a family.""<br /><br />I know it is a little long but can someone carve this in stone for me?<br /><br />Would like to use said stone to massage some sense into a few of the feminist teachers I had in high school.Jamesnoreply@blogger.com