tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post55310338753618883..comments2024-03-25T19:48:24.624+11:00Comments on Oz Conservative: Can we make it up?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-52113877327417865112008-05-10T20:48:00.000+10:002008-05-10T20:48:00.000+10:00"I think conservatives are less prone to philosoph..."I think conservatives are less prone to philosophise and ask awkward, unanswerable questions."<BR/><BR/>This is not only false, but obviously, demonstrably, and discreditably so. Being religiously conservative, and concerning oneself with the cosmic mysteries, entails not only a certain level of comfort with the mystery of the luminous, but it also entails an actual search for meaningful answers. To think that a Catholic who spends hours before the tabernacle is less searching and philosophical than the man whose keenest interest in life is easy sex and football is facially ridiculous.<BR/><BR/>I have no idea how a person can cast the act of simply shrugging at the universe and saying, "Hell, who knows? Probably doesn't mean squat, and I don't care," with an act of philosophy. Secular liberalism entails a radical skepticism that the nature of reality can be positively known, and this is not an attitude that encourages curiosity. Moreover, liberals on the whole are deeply uninterested in both the philosophical roots of their own beliefs, and their implications. Religious people, especially those who come to their faith later in life, take explicit interest in the basic cosmological question, and are constantly challenged to explore the foundations of their belief. To be conservative, moreover, is to understand that while there is definite truth that is knowable and worth defending, reality cannot be immediately and finally apprehended--which is why they take such an interest in traditions which express the underlying realities with which we must all live, while satisfying themselves that a full accounting of all its moving parts and justifications can ever be wholly established by any particular generation. <BR/><BR/>The modernist, liberal view of what constitutes real knowledge is extremely rigorous and constrained. Liberals thus tend to oscillate between believing that nothing can be known, and that anything which is true must be fully and finally knowable. Thus, if a complete and publicly certain rationale for opposition to same-sex marriage cannot be <I>scientifically</I> established by accredited experts (like themselves, naturally), then such opposition is totally irrational and must be tossed aside as a mere prejudice. This is hostile to both philosophy and the living mystery implied by it. But in the end, such an approach only leads one to despair and nihilism (and thus unhappiness and dissatisfaction with life), because reality simply is not like that, and we cannot each unto ourselves possess all the knowledge required for true, complete social autonomy. If we have to have a perfectly justifiable, certain, and scientifically-established reason for believing that the role of husband and father is a positive good in itself, then we are not only likely to delay the choice but find ourselves bereft of any satisfying reason to get up in ht e morning. So the fall-back position of the liberal is epistemological skepticism, moral relativism, and therefore the raw assertion of will as a substitute for reasoned debate ("I am a woman merely because I say so"). This is not conducive either to philosophy or even to meaningful debate.<BR/><BR/>Besides, common experience directly contradicts your statement, in some obvious ways that can be reaffirmed by walking around a college campus. Conservatives will tend, as a group, to know how Rousseau leads to Napoleon. Secular liberals and those in thrall to them will tend, as a group, not to know or to care."Ideas have consequences" is a mantra on the right, and one simply never hears it said by men of the left. As Alan Bloom pointed out, if there is no meaning, no truth, no hierarchy of value, then the result will NOT be curiosity about other cultures or ways of thinking--it will be indifference, because they all ultimately lead nowhere, and are all equally worthless. Can we really say that our liberal, secular societies are more philosophical, searching, and at home with the mysterious than traditional cultures? I find the assertion baldly absurd, of the same order as a statement that the sky is green.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-30840644813334219752008-05-08T13:38:00.000+10:002008-05-08T13:38:00.000+10:00hi there..interesting analysis..and yes..the spiri...hi there..interesting analysis..and yes..the spiritual void has left liberals..well............liberals!..:)WomanHonorThyselfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17211851365273181636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-35805630745640630652008-05-08T02:58:00.000+10:002008-05-08T02:58:00.000+10:00Mark, you say "There is an argument against libera...Mark, you say "There is an argument against liberal modernism which doesn't require [delving into religion]." I agree with you here but often wonder what then is the anchor of traditionalism, of a virtuous culture in the Western sense? Where has it come from and how will it be maintained? <BR/><BR/>Historically, the rational, reasoned discourse in these matters is uneven and is not a sustained feature of the general population. Christianity has played a critical role here and continues to do so, even as it ebbs in many urban centers. <BR/><BR/>One of the "strengths" of modern liberalism is its apparent detachment from of the old ways, from religion in particular. So long as traditionalist argumentation is seen by liberals (i.e., the general population) as representing older systems with their definite religious undertones, the higher intellectual principles of conservative thought, exemplified by Oz Conservative, will be drowned out. It seems to me that the rejection of religion is a critical underpinning of modern liberalism and so it must be addressed at some level-- not by reinstating religious virtuosity but by building the case for a rational traditionalism, as you note.<BR/><BR/>The twinning of religion and conservative thought does not worry me personally but I wonder how effective the latter can be in a world swamped in irreligious liberal materialism.leadpbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08957439101293478340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-77936192335019942952008-05-07T23:46:00.000+10:002008-05-07T23:46:00.000+10:00"I don't agree that the "stay occupied and don't t..."I don't agree that the "stay occupied and don't think about things" strategy is the best we can aim for."<BR/><BR/>Are you rather thinking of something like a renewed interest in culture and history? Teaching our children to feel more connected to the people who went before them and what they did to build civilization? I'm not referring to their specific ancestors, and it is not related to race, just achievement and inspiration. <BR/><BR/>I like this but it will have to come entirely from people's homes. The media and schools and politicians are mysteriously not on board with this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-62517487117864362008-05-07T08:00:00.000+10:002008-05-07T08:00:00.000+10:00The purpose of this site isn't to delve deeply int...The purpose of this site isn't to delve deeply into religious matters. There is an argument against liberal modernism which doesn't require this.<BR/><BR/>However, since the topic has been touched on in my post and then in the following comments, I will say this much: that I don't agree that the "stay occupied and don't think about things" strategy is the best we can aim for.<BR/><BR/>Most religious traditions aim to supplant a more superficial, egoistic state of mind with a mind which is receptive to the spiritual in life. <BR/><BR/>We might experience the spiritual in our response to nature; in our love for women and our appreciation of feminine beauty; in our sense of manhood; in response to art; or more generally as a heightened sense of the art of living.<BR/><BR/>You will find an expression of this within traditional Western culture; it is there in painting and poetry and in the understanding of individual virtue and character..Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-90275220330494830812008-05-07T06:31:00.000+10:002008-05-07T06:31:00.000+10:00Yes Mr Clarke. I think that if one spends too much...Yes Mr Clarke. I think that if one spends too much time dwelling on how they feel or wondering what is the meaning of it all, they may begin to feel small and confused.<BR/><BR/>This is probably the root of 'therapy culture." If you aren't occupied by either trying to survive or helping another, you may fall prey to your own dark thoughts and need someone to help sort them out (as religion does for many.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-41026532887967122202008-05-06T21:40:00.000+10:002008-05-06T21:40:00.000+10:00I think conservatives are less prone to philosophi...I think conservatives are less prone to philosophise and ask awkward, unanswerable questions. <BR/><BR/>Life - well its just life.<BR/><BR/>Not sure this is a positive or negative but I think true. <BR/><BR/>This is consistent with views of Anon - you are happy when occupied.hchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13799594181016858701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-46288195951147327762008-05-06T00:14:00.000+10:002008-05-06T00:14:00.000+10:00I read once that people are happiest when involved...I read once that people are happiest when involved and totally engaged in a task. So raising children, taking care of the home, working a job, helping others, learning a lesson can all be equally enjoyable as long as the person is fully engaged.<BR/><BR/> Happiness is not like a target that you can aim for, more a side product of a life well lived. That would explain why people who spend most of their lives caring more about other's needs, as parents or otherwise, are happier than those left to look only after themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com