tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post4366173292291468940..comments2024-03-25T19:48:24.624+11:00Comments on Oz Conservative: A female reader repliesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-83078186286330588182016-04-12T07:12:59.987+10:002016-04-12T07:12:59.987+10:00Anon, England was not occupied by the Anglo-Saxons...Anon, England was not occupied by the Anglo-Saxons until the fifth century AD so I'm not sure where "AD 9" comes from. King Alfred was still using a wergild system in the ninth century AD. Here is an excerpt of a law from Alfred:<br /><br />"Cap. 27. If a man, kinless of paternal relatives, fight and slay a man, and then if he have maternal relatives, let them pay a third of the 'wer;' his guild-brethren a third part; for a third let him flee. If he have no maternal relatives, let his guild-brethren pay half, for half let him flee."Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-30333284505594308692016-04-11T20:49:29.982+10:002016-04-11T20:49:29.982+10:00You are indeed confused. Check from Prof Anthony M...You are indeed confused. Check from Prof Anthony Musson, Professor of Legal History - vergild was used in murder cases and replaced in AD 9 by Capital punishment as England was Christianised. No use after AD 9 and not used for adultery.<br /><br />Putting away a wife is polygamy and was illegal during the Anglo Saxon period. The issue of relevance to the blog is the behaviour of the general population and not the occasional errant King or Cleric.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-85139438076467807232016-04-10T12:03:05.234+10:002016-04-10T12:03:05.234+10:00Anon, I am not confused about historical periods. ...Anon, I am not confused about historical periods. The wergild system was most definitely in place during the Christian Anglo-Saxon period. It was not limited to murder, but was applied to sexual morality as well. For instance, if a man slept (i.e. fornicated) with another man's wife, daughter or sister then he had to pay the man a certain amount of money in compensation. As for the kings divorcing, they didn't bother to divorce so much as simply put one wife away in order to marry another. There was a system of multiple marriages, based on the dynastic need to produce many sons and to form wide alliances.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-68211436786436767172016-04-10T11:06:34.610+10:002016-04-10T11:06:34.610+10:00Anon, it is a silly rhetorical ploy to begin your ...Anon, it is a silly rhetorical ploy to begin your points as you do with comments like "you evidently have no experience of the real world..." I would like you to actually bring the discussion down to logic and facts rather than bald claims and rhetorical ploys, otherwise we get nowhere. On this particular issue we are going to have to agree to disagree - I am not going to keep responding to comments that are going nowhere. I will simply restate the point I have been making. We have a serious problem, namely that even conservative men will go to significant lengths to avoid holding women accountable for their vices. There is a clinging, even on the right, to a "man is perpetrator, woman is victim" analysis. It is a mindset that needs to change. By the way, there is a good response to the idea that if only men would be virtuous that women would automatically follow suit here:<br /><br />https://donalgraeme.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/reference-men-refusing-to-marry-non-virgins-wont-end-the-hook-up-culture/Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-69347311991358444042016-04-10T04:05:49.500+10:002016-04-10T04:05:49.500+10:00The points which you make are irrelevant to the la...The points which you make are irrelevant to the laity, the general population about whom the comments above were written. The Clergy were unmarried hence your repeated comments about the escapades of single men in religious orders have nothing to do with the marriages of the ordinary people of a nation. <br /><br />There is no Civil Law in England. That is a term derived from Roman Law which is applicable in Europe but not England which has an entirely different Common Law system. <br /><br />The Wergild System was a form of blood money and payable for murder and bodily crimes. It had nothing to do with marriage and it ended with the Chirstianization of England hence entirely irrelevant to Christian England.<br /><br />Divorce started with Henry VIII.<br /><br />You are evidently very confused about historical periods or are fabricating information in an attempt to discredit Christianity.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-63166580973278306992016-04-10T03:50:35.915+10:002016-04-10T03:50:35.915+10:00Mark, you evidently have no experience of the real...Mark, you evidently have no experience of the real world and very little capacity for serious intellectual analysis. Frameworks must first be established to define the standards to which people are to be held accountable. Without a framework, there are no consistent standards and holding people to account to vague standards descends into a witch hunt.<br /><br />Your problem is the typical one of male effeminacy and weakness which encourages hostility towards women and a failure to uphold traditional morality and standards among men.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-29965349402279086202016-04-10T00:31:23.591+10:002016-04-10T00:31:23.591+10:00Anon, the first step is to be willing to hold wome...Anon, the first step is to be willing to hold women to account. After that it becomes possible to establish a frame which aims to draw women to virtue. Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-11287979583296858182016-04-09T23:26:33.254+10:002016-04-09T23:26:33.254+10:00Anon, try reading "Sexual behaviour in later ...Anon, try reading "Sexual behaviour in later Anglo-Saxon England" by Anthony Davies. It gives the complexity of the situation. In parts of Anglo-Saxon England, the church law was notably stricter on sexual morality than anything existing now; but in Northumbria, in contrast, it was accepted that clergymen would have concubines. The civil law was a bit different again, being based on the older wergild system. Anglo-Saxon Kings were generally willing to cast off one wife for another. Stricter in some respects; more lax in others.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-68309488732687365262016-04-09T22:28:06.212+10:002016-04-09T22:28:06.212+10:00"What is the problem with saying to a woman &..."What is the problem with saying to a woman "you did the wrong thing, you shouldn't have done it". " <br /><br />And then what?<br /><br />There is nothing wrong with telling someone they did something wrong but the aim of responsible people is to correct the disorder and not simply tell off people which is, more often then not, futile.<br /><br />To cure a disease one must eradicate the cause of the disease and not simply treat the symptoms. Your approach to social problems is far too shallow and superficial and has no chance of effectiveness.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-85132163633065141232016-04-09T07:23:06.977+10:002016-04-09T07:23:06.977+10:00You haven't actually proved that. The behaviou...You haven't actually proved that. The behaviour of a single errant cleric in a remote island does not make a trend. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-53237065449371997642016-04-07T18:59:15.583+10:002016-04-07T18:59:15.583+10:00Anon, it still concerns me that you are finding wa...Anon, it still concerns me that you are finding ways to let women off the hook for their negative behaviours. What is the problem with saying to a woman "you did the wrong thing, you shouldn't have done it". Instead, the message you are sending to women is "you did the wrong thing, a man somewhere is to blame for it." This feeds into a larger problematic trend within the Western tradition, one that is still causing problems today. Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-3090168070069654392016-04-07T18:52:12.362+10:002016-04-07T18:52:12.362+10:00The point is that sexual morality was lax in the c...The point is that sexual morality was lax in the church at this point in time.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-84270455814304808752016-04-07T18:29:37.756+10:002016-04-07T18:29:37.756+10:00Logical deduction means that there are no standard...Logical deduction means that there are no standards to which they can be held accountable until these are defined by men. Hence solving the male problem is an imperative.<br /><br />How can women be held accountable for sexual promiscuity if it is still encouraged by men. If men repeller promiscuous women then women would not be promiscuous. The mark of manliness is sexual restraint not childish self indulgence.<br /><br />If men did not draft and pass divorce laws, women would not divorce. Women can be held accountable only after the standards to which they must be accountable have been clearly defined. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-3857584938687654942016-04-07T18:12:42.649+10:002016-04-07T18:12:42.649+10:00Bishops prior to the reformation were not married ...Bishops prior to the reformation were not married hence what is your point? If there is no marriage there is no monogamy. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-38953010333639185462016-04-07T12:46:58.937+10:002016-04-07T12:46:58.937+10:00Anon, why the resistance to holding women accounta...Anon, why the resistance to holding women accountable for their faults? It's like a mental block with some conservatives. It's not helpful because it feeds into an enduring, but false, part of the Western tradition, one which MRAs call "the feminine imperative" - by which they mean that women are never held accountable for acts they commit which do harm to society. It's always, instead, the fault of some man somewhere. Men will be less effeminate and less feeble when they are willing to hold women to account. That doesn't mean doing the reverse to what happens today and blaming women for everything - it means holding women to account for poor decisions and behaviour.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-62083111800117254322016-04-07T12:40:32.854+10:002016-04-07T12:40:32.854+10:00Anon, the laxity of Christian monogamy in northern...Anon, the laxity of Christian monogamy in northern Europe lasted for a long time - the last Catholic bishop of Iceland, for instance, Jon Arason, was a brave leader who fought against the Reformation with his sons - he sired six children. Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-7593247216634549602016-04-07T02:00:30.146+10:002016-04-07T02:00:30.146+10:00Review your sources of literature - there is subst...Review your sources of literature - there is substantially more evidence than what you are talking about. <br /><br />" monogamy was stronger during the pagan era than the Christian one (even the Icelandic Christian bishops kept concubines). At any rate, it's not as straightforward as you imagine." <br /><br />That's a joke surely? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-46771504489140581532016-04-07T01:56:02.578+10:002016-04-07T01:56:02.578+10:00Men are the dominant force in society with women f...Men are the dominant force in society with women followers. Hence logic dictates that the major problem is with men and until that is sorted, the problem with women will not be dealt with.<br /><br />"a leadership which must hold women accountable and which must seek to raise women to their higher, rather than their lower, potential as women" Why would women agree to be accountable to degenerate effminate men? <br /><br />The first step is to assert male leadership of society and then allow the older men to control the younger ones as they did in the past. The present situation of elders deferring to the opinions and values of the young is revolutionary and socially destructive.<br /><br />"promptings of our hind brains" - what kind of prompting is this? Are you referring to the cerebellum? <br /><br /> The remainder of your comment is irrelevant to the point of restoring a traditional order.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-40066106172877570672016-04-06T23:08:07.636+10:002016-04-06T23:08:07.636+10:00Anon (above), I have tried to explain that it does...Anon (above), I have tried to explain that it doesn't work to encourage men to the view that they and they alone are responsible for what happens in society. That then undermines the effective male leadership we are looking for, a leadership which must hold women accountable and which must seek to raise women to their higher, rather than their lower, potential as women. <br /><br />Human beings are a mixture of things. We are influenced by culture; we are influenced by the opinions of people who matter to us; we are influenced by theologies and ideologies; we are influenced by higher instincts; we are influenced by the promptings of our hind brains; we are influenced by our upbringing; we are influenced by self-interest; we are influenced by the experience of pleasure and pain; we are influenced by our education. There is a complex order to reality. We can take all of this into account in what we appeal to, in what we think is realistic, in what we think can work in the ordering of society.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-14301067040379022272016-04-06T22:50:54.445+10:002016-04-06T22:50:54.445+10:00Anon, overconfidence. Evidence for the Germanic tr...Anon, overconfidence. Evidence for the Germanic tribes of northern Europe is limited to Tacitus; various remnant legal codes (transcribed into Latin); a few commentaries; the Icelandic sagas. Analysis of the sagas suggests that monogamy was stronger during the pagan era than the Christian one (even the Icelandic Christian bishops kept concubines). At any rate, it's not as straightforward as you imagine.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-37575816942625517782016-04-05T23:04:53.254+10:002016-04-05T23:04:53.254+10:00Nonsense, there is sufficient historical material ...Nonsense, there is sufficient historical material describing the various tribes of pre Christian Europe and monogamy was not life long in any.<br /><br />The wealthy had mistresses and affairs. The character of marriage was profoundly different from that of Christian marriage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-75355554623678380162016-04-05T22:54:51.808+10:002016-04-05T22:54:51.808+10:00Mark your response has a severe weakness in that t...Mark your response has a severe weakness in that the responsibility for this situation lies with men. It is a mark of low IQ to fail to analyse the situation in full with a balanced approach. Your comments lead one the inevitable deductive conclusion of male perfection confronted with female disorder. The reverse is the reality.<br /><br />Male effeminacy is the cause of female empowerment. Nature abhors a vacuum. Women seek protection and financial security. When males cannot provide this due to moral and spiritual degeneracy, then females will loose confidence in them and respect for them. <br /><br />It is men, not women who drafted and passed Divorce Laws, and Abortion Laws. It is men who are head of the home hence responsible for the baptism and religious instruction of children. However the majority fail in this crucial duty, abrogating parental responsibility to women. <br /><br />The majority of the human race have no concept of the common good and no ability to predict the long term outcome of trends. They live in the here and now and it is the responsibility of the elder and wiser members of society to set up and maintain laws and traditions which enforce people to conform to standards.<br /><br />The majority of men today are weak, indecisive and effeminate. Many of them are readily exploiting young women, reluctant to commit to marriage and quite frankly quite unsuited to the institution which they readily abandon as soon as another younger romantic prospect comes on the scene. The much lauded Trump is an example of this behaviour having dumped 2 or is it 3 wives like cars to be traded in for newer models.<br /><br />You state "rejected assortative mating (finding a man at their level) in order to chase occasional gratification with a high status man" - of course, women will never reject the chance of a better deal. Would you drive a mini if you could get a Mercedes? Every woman no doubt thinks she will be the one to be successful, rejecting the statistics in the manner of a chain smoker who rejects the evidence he will get lung cancer.<br /><br />Human beings are not rational and perceive the world with bias ignoring the facts that do not fit their world view. Your selective and exclusive focus on feminism whilst ignoring its prime aetiological factor effimancy is a manifestation of that tendency.<br /><br />It is impossible to change human nature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-38056366842131498602016-04-05T15:17:31.828+10:002016-04-05T15:17:31.828+10:00I see what you mean. It can be hard as a woman to ...I see what you mean. It can be hard as a woman to give your good years over to caring for older family members and even though you are accepting of your lesser circumstances still be lumped in with the Marcottes of the world. At least in the past you could be treated with basic decency. I now see how these women have caused this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-45873222753695801872016-04-05T14:47:18.186+10:002016-04-05T14:47:18.186+10:00Anon (above), look at it this way. Until recent ti...Anon (above), look at it this way. Until recent times, the overwhelming majority of young women at age 18 reported wanting in the future to have a husband and children (more than 90% as I recollect from a survey about 15 years ago). In the 1950s, pretty much all of these women managed to achieve the goal. Nowadays, an increasing number aren't, despite the fact that when they are young they have some considerable power in attracting the interest of men. Part of the reason is that they are not using their advantages in a wise or timely manner. Sometimes they are rejecting men who would make good husbands because they are in a party girl phase and chasing excitement; or because they have deferred the idea of marriage and children to some impossibly late time in their life; or because they have rejected assortative mating (finding a man at their level) in order to chase occasional gratification with a high status man. Finally, I'd like to come back to the point I made originally. The goods of family life are of a higher quality and distinction than a freedom to watch True Detective whenever you want to. It is certainly a sign of intelligence and character to commit to the higher goods rather than the lower ones of lesser value. In other words, Amanda Marcotte is not committing to spinsterhood because she feels a religious vocation to deepen her piety within a religious order; nor even a humanitarian urge to serve the less fortunate. What did she say? She wants a freedom to have sex in any room of the house and a baby might complicate this. Not very deep.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-53336229902267548722016-04-05T14:32:51.667+10:002016-04-05T14:32:51.667+10:00Simon, you do realize that unmarried women (spinst...Simon, you do realize that unmarried women (spinsters) have always existed in society? That through many different circumstances both men and women can get to the end of their lives with "nothing". Sorry, but this comment struck me as a sign of low intelligence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com