tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post290652201274476590..comments2024-03-25T19:48:24.624+11:00Comments on Oz Conservative: Women & coercive autonomyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-72051219137764102032007-05-18T14:50:00.000+10:002007-05-18T14:50:00.000+10:00It's not really about autonomy as such. It's auto...It's not really about autonomy as such. It's autonomy in the service of destroying the traditional West. There's a malice in all of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-38612614736857047012007-05-17T14:32:00.000+10:002007-05-17T14:32:00.000+10:00One issue is that the higher taxes which result fr...One issue is that the higher taxes which result from comprehensively implemented exercises in social engineering (for examples see Sweden and other EU countries) actually reduces real choices.<BR/><BR/>If a couple simply can't afford to raise children on one salary the mother has to work.<BR/><BR/>I don't believe this is accidental. It is a long held tennet of feminist/left-liberal belief that the family is oppressive and should be weakened and eventually destroyed. Removing an Australian womans choice to be a full time mother would, as it has in other countries, be a big step in that weakening process.<BR/><BR/>Peter_WAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-43732513664667875182007-05-17T14:20:00.000+10:002007-05-17T14:20:00.000+10:00Parenthetically, the feminist's belief that:"Women...Parenthetically, the feminist's belief that:<BR/><BR/><I>"Women are getting punished for the simple fact that they, genetically, are those with the function to produce the next generation ... Why should they suffer the penalty?"</I><BR/><BR/>Still bespeaks the undercurrent that modern women associate <B>children, family & marriage</B> as something that they are 'burdened' with.<BR/><BR/>Bobby.NBobby.Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494573597598152422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-69840699428406517452007-05-17T10:06:00.000+10:002007-05-17T10:06:00.000+10:00"Women are getting punished for the simple fact th...<I>"Women are getting punished for the simple fact that they, genetically, are those with the function to produce the next generation ... Why should they suffer the penalty?"</I><BR/><BR/>This is just another feminist push to, not only give women further concessions, but to also further avail them of responsibility for a personal<B>‘choice’</B> – which is something they fought very hard for in the women’s movement. One cannot simply cry foul when a choice results in a consequence. (ie. Having a baby will put women out of commission for a long while)<BR/><BR/>Women already have won their ‘right’ to choose an abortion. Now they want a further extension of that choice. That is, even if you cannot (financially, mentally or otherwise) <B>cope</B> with having a child - not only can you chose to NOT take responsibility for your child by aborting it, but now they want to NOT take responsibility for their child by having taxpayers taking care of it?<BR/><BR/>Why are people even entertaining this as a sensible societal model? It’s a ridiculous blow to society’s progress (morally & financially).<BR/><BR/>Are we <B>that</B> afraid or consumed by feminism that we would abandon all reason & forethought?<BR/><BR/>Unbelievable.<BR/><BR/>Bobby.NBobby.Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494573597598152422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-45461060526265681552007-05-17T07:54:00.000+10:002007-05-17T07:54:00.000+10:00This might be a good time to raise a further quest...This might be a good time to raise a further question.<BR/><BR/>If autonomy doesn't work well as the organising principle of society, then what kind of alternative is there?<BR/><BR/>I think part of the conservative answer would be as follows.<BR/><BR/>First, our humanity shouldn't be thought of as contingent. In other words, our status as humans doesn't rest on our achieving any kind of political or ideological outcome.<BR/><BR/>Second, there is unlikely to be any single "good" which can be used as an organising principle. Instead, it's more helpful to think of a "balance of goods".<BR/><BR/>Autonomy should really be thought to work within such a balance of goods, rather than acting alone as the organising principle of society.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-426247531578980472007-05-17T07:43:00.000+10:002007-05-17T07:43:00.000+10:00Francis, you're right that it's not a problem for ...Francis, you're right that it's not a problem for the women themselves. They would happily choose to follow the traditional path.<BR/><BR/>For a serious liberal, though, it is a problem. If you believe that we are human because of our status as an autonomous agent, and if being an independent careerist is identified as representing autonomy, then for women to be less careerist than men, and less financially independent, means that they aren't equally human - it is a serious breach of "human equality".<BR/><BR/>Therefore, it's very likely that liberals will opt to "liberate" women from the motherhood role, even if this means transgressing their own principle of "choose your own life / state neutrality" autonomy.<BR/><BR/>Again, in practice making autonomy the sole, overriding good by which things are measured doesn't work coherently. It becomes coercive in a way it's not supposed to.Mark Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961688379656119701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6832901.post-7748508986833151232007-05-17T07:20:00.000+10:002007-05-17T07:20:00.000+10:00"Autonomy is supposed to lead to women choosing th..."Autonomy is supposed to lead to women choosing their own life aims, but autonomy is also supposed to lead to women living a maximally autonomous life. When women choose to sacrifice a degree of autonomy in the service of some higher good, then the two principles can't easily be combined."<BR/><BR/>This is only true if an extra constraint is added: that to be "fully autonomous" the woman <B><I>must</I></B> disdain all choices -- the heart of autonomy -- that don't bend in the left-liberal's favored direction. Otherwise, the sole "problem" here is that women's preponderant preferences aren't pleasing the gender-war feminists and left-liberals. It's certainly not a problem for the choice-exercisers themselves.<BR/><BR/>It might be a political problem for Australia, though, if that paid-maternity-leave bit gets enacted.Francis W. Porrettohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05862584203772592282noreply@blogger.com